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Old 06-20-2022, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
190 posts, read 298,982 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
for some reason you made this about Boudin, so tell me this, how is the new DA going to stop car break-ins, retail theft or eliminate the urine or feces odor?
Ain't gonna happen. The die has been cast for places like San Francisco, and they will have to reap what they've sown politically. At this point, you can only make it a little less worse than it is now -- and try to prevent this from happening in other places that haven't been trashed by the type of asinine policies that got Boudin recalled.
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Old 06-20-2022, 04:28 PM
 
6,884 posts, read 8,260,070 times
Reputation: 3867
Quote:
Originally Posted by terranova View Post
Yes, West LA. I have an old friend from college in Sacramento, and have been considering moving to Sacto area after i retire. Why the surprised question about me living in LA?
No surprise really. Just curious, what would be the attraction/reason for living up here? Would it be more about what you don't like about LA, or more about liking what Sacramento has to offer, or simply to be closer to a friend/significant other, or because you have property/business connections up here, etc. If any of these questions are too personal, no worries, no need to answer.

I had several years down there and went to college at LA City college, the one on Vermont/Santa Monica, Glendale College and UCLA.
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Old 06-20-2022, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
190 posts, read 298,982 times
Reputation: 148
Both places have a lot to offer. If i leave here, i'd miss friends, and the nearby coast and mountains. So why would i ever leave? For both reasons you mentioned: to get away from the sprawl and congestion that comes with living in a global alpa metropolis like Los Angeles. I like small cities like Sacramento because they have their own charm (with regular guy places like the Fox and Goose (ten years ago, before they remodeled) or Brownies Lounge in SLP, and Northern California in general. And though it's by a no place a cheap place to live (compared with the midwest), your money goes a lot further in Sacramento than in Los Angeles.
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Old 06-20-2022, 05:06 PM
 
6,884 posts, read 8,260,070 times
Reputation: 3867
Quote:
Originally Posted by terranova View Post
Both places have a lot to offer. If i leave here, i'd miss friends, and the nearby coast and mountains. So why would i ever leave? For both reasons you mentioned: to get away from the sprawl and congestion that comes with living in a global alpa metropolis like Los Angeles. I like small cities like Sacramento because they have their own charm (with regular guy places like the Fox and Goose (ten years ago, before they remodeled) or Brownies Lounge in SLP, and Northern California in general. And though it's by a no place a cheap place to live (compared with the midwest), your money goes a lot further in Sacramento than in Los Angeles.
All good reasons and when you feel you want to visit your LA/SoCal friends; its a very short flight, and there are many many flights per day to every SoCal airport. We are flying to Santa Barbara for few days soon!
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Old 06-20-2022, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
Your not citing impartial facts here, you are citing someone else's opinion and asserting that there opinion is a fact.
But the person who wrote this article is making a disingenious argument. Boudin isn't willing to file charges against these shoplifter because of prop 47, because individually these incidents are less $950 and there are no meaningful penalties no matter how many times you get caugh as long as each incident is under $950. So the SFPD isn't bothering to arrest people when they know these cases aren't going to get charged. So the stores stop calling the police to report shoplifting when they realize that doesn't do anything. But that doesn't mean that Walgreens is lying about shoplifting. We have seen the videos. Shoplifting is occurring in Walgreens in San Francisco
The fact that the stores are no longer trying to call police and have shoplifters arrested doesn't mean that shoplifting isn't happening, nor that theft isn't happening, but instead merely that Prop 47, has tied the hands of retailers and made it impossible for them to successfully prevent shoplifters by arresting shoplifters when they shoplift. This is why Walgreens are closing stores because they just can't afford to cover the volume of shoplifting that they are dealing with.
You really have your mind made up that you're right about Walgreens, so much so that now you are trying to say that if not for prop 47 everything would be hunky dory, now when I post a source you claim for no reason at all that it's "just an opinion". Alert! the following is not an opinion: Raising the felony threshold for shoplifting has not had any impact on other states, i.e Wisconsin and Texas $2500, Colorado and Connecticut $2,000 but you want me to believe that if not for prop 47 Walgreens would still be there and SF would be a wonderful place. Think about how silly that sounds...
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
If the new DA starts prosecuting the drug dealers that sell drugs in front of the City Spomsored injection site (the linkage Center) and if the new DA was willing prosecute shoplifters who did have drug habits, now with convictions he has leverage to offer these people the choice of jail or rehab. The problem with the current program is that addicts have no incentive to actually seek treatment. They can keep stealing and they never go to jail, because as long as each shop lifting event is under $950, they spend no time in jail and any fines you give to a homeless addict mean nothing to this person. So they keep shoplifting to keep using. But if the choice they face is jail or rehab, then rehab becomes a much more attractive option because jail means no more easy access to drugs. Additionally diversion from jail helps to fund rehab. If you can argue that successful rehab is less expensive than a full jail term, that also helps to fund rehab programs. The problem with the current program is that the addicts just are going to the safe injection site, but they aren't currently agreeing to go rehab. This article points out how the clients were neither aware nor interested in rehab. They just want to shoot up. Fentanyl deaths are at a new record in SF, but there are plenty of open spaces in rehab in SF. This is where thew current program is failing. The threat of arrest though is also the thing that will get them to agree to go to rehab though.

https://sfstandard.com/public-health...e-legal-risks/
But if you did that, then you could actually start getting people off the street. But if you don't do that, the situation is going to keep getting worse.
How long do you think people are sober after they leave a court ordered drug rehab? I'm serious, do you think they are fixed for life and will never do drugs again, or what?
Quote:
"Global evidence indicates that mandated treatment of drug dependence conflicts with drug users’ human rights and is not effective in treating addiction,” Karsten Lunze, a professor at the Boston University School of Medicine found. https://sfstandard.com/public-health...reatment-work/
And how in the world does a cop drive up to a safe injection site and start arresting people, do you think they sell drugs in front of cops? This must be silly season. In order to make an arrest for sales the act has to be witnessed, in order to make an arrest for possession you have to have a legal means of searching the individual for drugs.

Crime is complicated, there aren't any easy answers and sometimes there are no answers at all.
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Old 06-20-2022, 05:57 PM
 
6,884 posts, read 8,260,070 times
Reputation: 3867
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post

Crime is complicated, there aren't any easy answers and sometimes there are no answers at all.
It doesn't have to be so complicated. If every person who is about to commit a crime, choses not to, can you imagine how uncomplicated the justice system would be, and how much easier policing would be for all involved cops, citizens, criminal defense lawyers, DA's, etc.

Why is it that we have so many drug addicts and criminals today versus 75-125 years ago? Despite all our gains in providing resources, money, time, free clinics, medications, social and psychological services, I mean 125 years ago, there were virtually zero public tax supported services to the disadvantaged and underprivileged.

Do you realize how much harder it was to make it in the world back then. I just finished re-reading Upton Sinclairs, The Jungle, required reading for a college history class. The protagonist, an immigrant, had unbelievable injustices done to him which drove him to petty crime, compare that guy to the average under privileged Joe today. There really should be very little reason one NEEDS to be a criminal today, especially after reading that book.
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Old 06-20-2022, 07:39 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 3,301,161 times
Reputation: 6359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
You really have your mind made up that you're right about Walgreens, so much so that now you are trying to say that if not for prop 47 everything would be hunky dory, now when I post a source you claim for no reason at all that it's "just an opinion". Alert! the following is not an opinion: Raising the felony threshold for shoplifting has not had any impact on other states, i.e Wisconsin and Texas $2500, Colorado and Connecticut $2,000 but you want me to believe that if not for prop 47 Walgreens would still be there and SF would be a wonderful place. Think about how silly that sounds...
First someone's analysis is their professional opinion, but a professional opinion is still an opinion. It's not a fact.

Second you really haven't made your case. We have seen the videotape of shoplifting in the Walgreen's in San Francisco. Walgreens is closing stores in San Francsico because of shoplifting and Target is cutting hours because of shoplifting. The San Francisco Chronicle is publishing a map of car break ins. There is a major problem with Fentenyl in San Francisco, they have a problem with a record number of Fentenyl deaths is San Francisco. There are huge homeless encampments in the Tenderloin. There is open drug dealing in the streets and the prices of illegal drugs is falling in San Francisco. All of that indicates to me, yes, crime is a problem in San Francisco right now because people on drugs are shoplifting/breaking into cars topay for their drug habit. Yes, I think Prop 47 is a big part of the problem. I have family members living in North Beach. So yes, I know first hand that crime is a problem in San Francisco and that what is going on right now is not like it was before. Heck I lived in San Francisco previously, so yes I think you are wrong here, something has changed for the worse in San Francisco.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
How long do you think people are sober after they leave a court ordered drug rehab? I'm serious, do you think they are fixed for life and will never do drugs again, or what?
People fall off the wagon. But threat of getting arrested again and possibly going to jail is one of the things that makes people take their sobriety seriously. Sometimes people need major consequences in their lives before they agree to make better choices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
And how in the world does a cop drive up to a safe injection site and start arresting people, do you think they sell drugs in front of cops? This must be silly season. In order to make an arrest for sales the act has to be witnessed, in order to make an arrest for possession you have to have a legal means of searching the individual for drugs.

Crime is complicated, there aren't any easy answers and sometimes there are no answers at all.
Right now they are selling drugs in front of police in the Tenderloin and there is no legal recourse because the addict is just diverted to the linkage center instead of being arrested. Drug dealers themselves were protected from arrest in San Francisco because they were Honduran and Boudin was refusing to prosecute them because they might be deported back to Honduras and Boudin argued that violated San Francisco's Sanctuary City policy.

https://sfstandard.com/criminal-just...g-immigration/

But I would start with arresting drug dealers themselves and get the addicts themselves when they are caught shoplifting. Then I would offer them access to drug treatment or jail if they refuse treatment. But you need something to get the addicts to agree to go to treatment in the first place. Also, you can use the fact that jail is expensive as a reason to fund more treatment centers arguing its cheaper to treat them than to put them in jail.

But the staus quo where you are letting people steal to fund their addiction, just isn't working in San Francisco. I think the current policies are just really cruel. The addicts at the linkage center aren't agreeing to treatment, they are just overdosing on fentanyl or heroin or meth. That is not compassion.

More people died of Fentanyl last year in San Francisco than Covid, that is a measure of both how well the City of San Francisco handled Covid but also how badly it has handled Fentanyl.
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Old 06-20-2022, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
It doesn't have to be so complicated. If every person who is about to commit a crime, choses not to, can you imagine how uncomplicated the justice system would be, and how much easier policing would be for all involved cops, citizens, criminal defense lawyers, DA's, etc.

Why is it that we have so many drug addicts and criminals today versus 75-125 years ago? Despite all our gains in providing resources, money, time, free clinics, medications, social and psychological services, I mean 125 years ago, there were virtually zero public tax supported services to the disadvantaged and underprivileged.

Do you realize how much harder it was to make it in the world back then. I just finished re-reading Upton Sinclairs, The Jungle, required reading for a college history class. The protagonist, an immigrant, had unbelievable injustices done to him which drove him to petty crime, compare that guy to the average under privileged Joe today. There really should be very little reason one NEEDS to be a criminal today, especially after reading that book.
When you figure out how to get people to choose not to commit crimes you need to patent it, you'll be rich!
There was a large opioid epidemic in the 1800's you should read about it, it's quite interesting, but for the most part the drug of use was alcohol, which frequently led to violent behavior. A lot of people engage in criminal behavior because they are anti-social, narcissistic, psychotic or just plain greedy and can't seem to keep their hands off other people's stuff. Criminals rarely reflect on their behavior, and for the most part they don't think they will get caught.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:46 AM
 
6,884 posts, read 8,260,070 times
Reputation: 3867
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
A lot of people engage in criminal behavior because they are anti-social, narcissistic, psychotic or just plain greedy and can't seem to keep their hands off other people's stuff. Criminals rarely reflect on their behavior, and for the most part they don't think they will get caught.
These are your words. Please think about that the next time you and your ilk prioritize criminals over victims and regular folk who you chose not to commit crime.
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
These are your words. Please think about that the next time you and your ilk prioritize criminals over victims and regular folk who you chose not to commit crime.
Whoa there...I never prioritized criminals over victims, that's just plain absurd. You want to say something like that then back it up with some evidence because it's really a cheap shot. And I'm not sure who my "ilk" is, maybe you could enlighten me on that too...
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