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Old 05-09-2023, 11:42 AM
 
855 posts, read 451,452 times
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A negative to Sac is that most new houses in the burbs are getting stacked right on top of one another in these developments.

Most cities your lot size increases the further from the city center. Sac wants to ruin that. So even a 800k house out in Rocklin is gonna have about 2 ft between house. You can hear your neighbor snore and they can watch you use the toilet.

Backyards are disappearing.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:52 AM
 
855 posts, read 451,452 times
Reputation: 2667
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixxalot View Post
SF has turned into a giant outdoor sewer of open air drug markets and massive crime and homeless everywhere! So sad as it was nice place 30 years ago!
People who defend what liberals have done to SF have zero perspective how bad it is in comparison to just about any other first world major city globally.

But then the wealthy in SF travel to Amsterdam or Vienna or Prague for vacation because of how nice those cities are. Then play dumb and act like they can’t compute the difference.

Never mind Moscow, major Eastern Europe cities, major Middle East cities, any sizable city across Asia, etc, are all far nicer, cleaner and safer than SF.

Best comparison to SF is probably what you see in South Africa.

Kiev right now is nicer and safer than SF.
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Old 05-09-2023, 09:04 PM
 
Location: West Seattle
6,378 posts, read 5,002,937 times
Reputation: 8453
I don't really know why this thread has become about SF. Maybe the homelessness, drug use, and violent crime are the fault of our government, maybe they aren't, but it seems weird to me to pin this on "liberal" or "Democratic" governance when basically every major city in America is liberal these days. (I guess Anchorage, AK is one exception? But they have plenty of crime and drug issues too)

I can at least respond to one post about Sacramento:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticpearl View Post
A negative to Sac is that most new houses in the burbs are getting stacked right on top of one another in these developments.

Most cities your lot size increases the further from the city center. Sac wants to ruin that. So even a 800k house out in Rocklin is gonna have about 2 ft between house. You can hear your neighbor snore and they can watch you use the toilet.

Backyards are disappearing.
My understanding has been that the smaller lot sizes in California and the Southwest are mainly a result of water scarcity. Smaller lot sizes = less to water, and housing developments that are more tightly packed = water mains don't have to get extended as far.

I am surprised that house prices are that high in suburban Sac. Even suburban Seattle is mostly $500s-700s last I checked (outside of the higher-end areas), and that's a larger region with a top-tier job market. I wonder if environmental regulations relating to the Sierra foothills are serving to restrict supply.
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Old 05-10-2023, 02:14 PM
 
1,447 posts, read 1,570,303 times
Reputation: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticpearl View Post
People who defend what liberals have done to SF have zero perspective how bad it is in comparison to just about any other first world major city globally.

But then the wealthy in SF travel to Amsterdam or Vienna or Prague for vacation because of how nice those cities are. Then play dumb and act like they can’t compute the difference.

Never mind Moscow, major Eastern Europe cities, major Middle East cities, any sizable city across Asia, etc, are all far nicer, cleaner and safer than SF.

Best comparison to SF is probably what you see in South Africa.

Kiev right now is nicer and safer than SF.
I used to have fun in SF years ago like in 1990 was still sketchy but not a complete dump. It started going downhill really fast ten years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now. Unfortunate that similar stuff is happening to Sacramento and many places in America.
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Old 05-10-2023, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Elk Grove, CA
580 posts, read 513,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Yeah, I have to admit, I'm hard-pressed to think of legit tourist attractions in Sac. I had a friend passing through there recently, asking me if there was anything good to do in town, and I couldn't really tell him anything other than the state capitol and Old Sac.

I mean there are other cities I'd say the same thing about, especially in the west. Spokane, Phoenix, Tucson, Denver, Boise... nothing super worth seeing in town for someone who isn't a city buff. I notice that with SF at least, a lot of our appeal is in the historic stuff (streetcars, Chinatown, organized crime tours, Haight-Ashbury) --- ditto for Seattle. I don't actually really know anything about Sac's history, but that could be something to play up. Was there an old ethnic neighborhood that's largely (or entirely) disappeared but could be revitalized?

Or since it's a Central Valley city, maybe lean into the agricultural connection? I could see a Sacramento Almond Festival or Fruit Festival or Wine Festival or whatever being big.

SAC is not a tourist destination. But most mid sized cities are not, in general.
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Old 05-10-2023, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34058
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Yeah, I have to admit, I'm hard-pressed to think of legit tourist attractions in Sac. I had a friend passing through there recently, asking me if there was anything good to do in town, and I couldn't really tell him anything other than the state capitol and Old Sac.

I mean there are other cities I'd say the same thing about, especially in the west. Spokane, Phoenix, Tucson, Denver, Boise... nothing super worth seeing in town for someone who isn't a city buff. I notice that with SF at least, a lot of our appeal is in the historic stuff (streetcars, Chinatown, organized crime tours, Haight-Ashbury) --- ditto for Seattle. I don't actually really know anything about Sac's history, but that could be something to play up. Was there an old ethnic neighborhood that's largely (or entirely) disappeared but could be revitalized?

Or since it's a Central Valley city, maybe lean into the agricultural connection? I could see a Sacramento Almond Festival or Fruit Festival or Wine Festival or whatever being big.
Farm to Fork

Annual Japanese Food & Culture Bazaar

Aftershock Music Festival

Sacramento Concerts in the Park
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Old 05-10-2023, 09:10 PM
 
6,906 posts, read 8,275,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Farm to Fork

Annual Japanese Food & Culture Bazaar

Aftershock Music Festival

Sacramento Concerts in the Park
B Street Theatre/Sofia Center

Crocker Art Museum

Sacramento Museum of Science and Curiosity

Music Circus

Standard Mansion/Museum

State Capitol and Capitol Park

Old Sacramento

Sacramento Zoo

Concerts, show, games at Golden 1 Center

Sacramento AAA Baseball Park (Sutter Health Stadium) for games and shows
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Old 05-11-2023, 11:43 AM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,282,794 times
Reputation: 4685
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Yeah, I have to admit, I'm hard-pressed to think of legit tourist attractions in Sac. I had a friend passing through there recently, asking me if there was anything good to do in town, and I couldn't really tell him anything other than the state capitol and Old Sac.

I mean there are other cities I'd say the same thing about, especially in the west. Spokane, Phoenix, Tucson, Denver, Boise... nothing super worth seeing in town for someone who isn't a city buff. I notice that with SF at least, a lot of our appeal is in the historic stuff (streetcars, Chinatown, organized crime tours, Haight-Ashbury) --- ditto for Seattle. I don't actually really know anything about Sac's history, but that could be something to play up. Was there an old ethnic neighborhood that's largely (or entirely) disappeared but could be revitalized?

Or since it's a Central Valley city, maybe lean into the agricultural connection? I could see a Sacramento Almond Festival or Fruit Festival or Wine Festival or whatever being big.

This begs the question--I don't mean to sound mean by saying this, but do you actually look for things to do in Sacramento, like consulting local media or websites, or do you just think about it and hope you remember something? Checking event listings at places like Sacramento365 can help if looking for events like festivals, while local media typically talks about local events and attractions. The local tourism bureau, Discover Sacramento, is pretty ho-hum and tends to mostly list things outside Sacramento, but even they can be helpful for things like downtown festival listings.



Presumably if one is visiting a city and looking for things to do, they're at least something of a "city buff," but there's plenty of nearby rural activities if that's more your thing--more on that in a bit. You correctly note that San Francisco plays heavily on its history, from the Mission era, the Presidio and the Gold Rush, the Barbary Coast period, cable cars and Chinatown and the earthquake, the 1915 Pan-Pacific International Exposition, and plays very heavily on its 1960s counterculture legacy and 1970s gay liberation movement history. Oddly enough, when Sacramento plays on its own history, some folks accuse us of being trapped in the past, or gripe about Old Sacramento, despite the fact that, quite frankly, tourists and visitors really like Old Sacramento, and part of why there are so many candy and T-shirt shops there is because tourist visitors really like candy and T-shirts, and you find them in the tourist district of any other city. Like so many things, such as not being able to find parking spaces downtown, they're a symptom of success that people still find a reason to complain about.


If you don't really know anything about Sacramento's history, maybe it's time to get educated on the subject! Sacramento is the home of the California State Railroad Museum, which is one of the best and most-visited railroad museums in the country, because Sacramento was the starting point for the Central Pacific Railroad, the first transcontinental railroad--construction began here and went east, where it met Union Pacific's construction crews in Utah. That project brought a workforce of 12,000 Chinese laborers to California, many of whom stayed, joining Chinese miners who had come out for the Gold Rush.


I assume you've heard of the Gold Rush, but it's another event that's big in local history--San Francisco largely plays on Gold Rush history based on things that happened here in the Sacramento area. They even named a lot of their streets after Sacramento businessmen and landowners of the Gold Rush era--Sutter, Brannan, Leidesdorff. While you're still in Old Sacramento, be sure to check out the Sacramento History Museum, at 101 I Street in Old Sacramento just west of the Railroad Museum, which covers the Gold Rush pretty extensively, as well as the growth of Sacramento into a city--most notably including its street raisings, where we protected the city from floods through levees, moving the American River north, and raising downtown Sacramento high enough to escape the worst floods. The museum does a great tour of some of the "underground sidewalk" spaces in Old Sacramento, although they existed all the way out to about 12th Street downtown.


On the other end of the old city limits is Sutter's Fort, another person you may have heard of or maybe visited in 4th Grade if you grew up here. While Sutter himself was not the best person (he was a second-rate con artist and serial failure who only succeeded briefly in Sacramento by terrorizing the indigenous people into what, while not technically slavery, was definitely a condition of servitude) it's an interesting place to visit to learn about early Sacramento--and don't miss the California Indian Museum, located behind the fort, a modest but well-organized museum that tells the story of what happened in the thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans in California. There's a plan underway to build a much larger museum dedicated to California's indigenous people in West Sacramento, but it's a few years away.


Sacramento also had streetcars (the mule-drawn and later electric kind, not the kind pulled by cables), but aside from light rail there isn't much to remind people of that. We also had a Chinatown, mostly demolished by 1960s era redevelopment and commemorated in a small 1970s Chinatown Mall created by local Chinese-American merchants working with the Redevelopment Agency, and designed by local Chinese-American architects. It hasn't fared well since COVID but there are plans to revitalize the place that just got started, so it may become a tourism attraction again--there used to be things like Lunar New Year events and other public gatherings in its sunken central courtyard.


Sacramento also used to have a Japantown, on what is now Capitol Mall, which was also the home of the local Black, Filipino, and Mexican communities, also displaced by redevelopment (aside from 2 buildings at 4th and O Street.) There are contemporary events recognizing these communities like the AAPI Night Market coming up next weekend on May 19, and on the other end of Capitol Avenue at the Sofia, this weekend is the Sacramento Asian Pacific Film Festival. Of course, those populations didn't disappear; many moved to the neighborhood of Southside Park, which was previously a Portuguese and Italian neighborhood (there's still a Portuguese Catholic church in Southside, but the Italian Catholic congregation moved to East Sacramento), which now has a Buddhist temple, a Muslim mosque (oldest in the western United States), the national shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe (a Spanish speaking congregation) and an African Methodist church whose congregation dates back to the Gold Rush (even if their old church was demolished for a county parking structure.) Southside Park has some legacy businesses associated with its role as a Japantown, including Osaka-ya, one of only a handful of traditional mochi & manju shops left in California, legendary for its Japanese style snow-cones, a mainstay of summer in Southside! There are also many cultural events, concerts, fairs, and other community gatherings in Southside Park itself, a historic city park well known for its mural-decorated Art Deco bandstand. Sacramento's Black population principally moved to Oak Park, Glen Elder, and Del Paso Heights near the formerly-separate city of North Sacramento (now a neighborhood of Sacramento), and there are celebrations and events in both places, along with art galleries and cultural hubs; a bit south from Oak Park is the Sojourner Truth African Heritage Museum which is part of a whole collection of Black owned businesses, nonprofits, and community service organizations in a marketplace located in a repurposed shopping center at 24th Street and Florin Road; they also have festivals and special events.


As others have mentioned, there are a lot of regional events recognizing regional agriculture and food processing, like the Farm-to-Fork Festival, or just weekly farmer's markets like the one in Midtown, which takes up about 5-6 city blocks every Saturday, along 20th Street between J Street and Capitol, and K Street from 19th to 21st! But there are also regional festivals out in the Delta in the summertime, like the Courtland Pear Fair, and other Delta towns like Locke (a Chinese farm town), Clarksburg (well known for its winery in an old sugar mill), Isleton, Walnut Grove, and others--great for a day trip, by car or by boat!


Coming back to Sacramento, this weekend marks the return of Second Saturday in Midtown, a monthly arts & culture event intended to draw visitors to Sacramento art galleries and creative spaces, which never really entirely went away, but shrank down considerably in 2020 for obvious reasons, and is now just one of several regular art events that happen in Sacramento--there are two separate First Friday art gallery events that happen in R Street downtown, focused on the "Warehouse Artist Lofts" building, and Oak Park along Broadway. But there are a whole lot of other festivals, fairs, art events, etcetera, in the central city pretty much every week especially in spring, summer, and fall, and more in other parts of town--and that's not even getting into special events or attractions farther east in the suburbs, which I'm less of an expert at. But seriously--do some exploring and check things out, don't just assume there's nothing going on. Once you know where to look for it, the only excuse for not having some sort of event to go visit is because you're too tuckered out from attending all the great events!

Last edited by wburg; 05-11-2023 at 12:46 PM.. Reason: Add links
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Old 05-11-2023, 12:18 PM
 
6,906 posts, read 8,275,166 times
Reputation: 3877
^^^^

I was hoping for Burgs input, thank you, because I didn't have the patience to give a full response specifically because I can't stand dealing with California coastal ignorance and misplaced Bay Area "snobbery". I've been feeling like a cantankerious old lady these days, lol
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Old 05-11-2023, 12:45 PM
 
6,906 posts, read 8,275,166 times
Reputation: 3877
Of course I forgot,

the Railroad Museum and

the Historic California State Library and Courts Building
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