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Old 06-18-2023, 11:55 PM
 
1,443 posts, read 1,567,698 times
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I’m waiting for open air weapons black markets to debut with the open air drug markets and farmers markets. It will make stocking up quite an experience to get drugs/meds, food and self defense appliances all in one place!
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Old 06-19-2023, 09:30 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 5,257,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
“Funny thing" about that response is there is nothing Funny about being a real victim. And what's sad, heart-breaking, and crushes the spirit is when your fellow man or woman does not believe you were a victim of crime.

Those people are masters of deception who blame the victim, marginalize the victim, discredit the victim, diminish the victim, and say the victim is crazy or a liar. Its down right evil and an injustice.

This is the society we live in today, and telling the truth infuriates them as it always has.
It's not that people don't believe there's uneported crime, it's that there are narratives about how much unreported crime there is, and we literally can't know that because it's unreported. So I have to agree with Mixxalot that it's a very slippery slope to make generalizations about things that are by nature unknown. There will always be plenty of individual anecdotal examples of people who witnessed or were victims of a crime and did not report it, but it's hard to extrapolate that into a pattern. Think back to the whole George Floyd incident 3 years ago, where there must have been about four or five reports of white police officers mistreating black suspects. The perception was that there was an epidemic of police brutality in this country, but a handful of examples reported in the media out of a country of 330 million people it doesn't really tell us whether or not these were individual examples or part of a pattern. Now, we don't hear about it anymore, but is it still happening? Who knows.

So yes of course, there will always be unreported crime, but we have no idea how much it is, so anything disgusted the media is pure speculation. My husband and I went to Berkeley for undergrad, I went to USF for grad school, and we lived in Emeryville and spent tons of time in oakland. I would say there was a good 20-year Chunk in there, and never once where we evicted of a crime in thousands and thousands of visits to Berkeley campus, the city, or Oakland. Only once have we seen a handbag grab, and once we saw the aftermath of a car window broken. And I'm sure you could find tons of people having this experience instead of yours. Our experiences are unique and individual, and it's just impossible to try any conclusions from anecdotal information.

The other thing that concerns me about these unreported crime discussions lately is that the same reasoning could be used to slander all sorts of groups. With all the weird talk of teachers and drag queens being pedophile groomers all of a sudden, it's concerning to see many people in society spreading hatred of people without a proven factual basis. This is the kind of stuff that led to a battle between fascism and communism 100 years ago, and we don't need to go back there. Accepting exaggerated or speculated narratives is very dangerous.

My recommendation is that people do report crimes whenever possible and practical. And we need to have a system in place that allows that to happen, as police departments and 911 are woefully understaffed everywhere.

The other thing that's important to remember is that if crime goes unreported in San francisco, it's highly likely that it's also unreported in many other cities and not just San francisco. In other words, this is not something that even needs to be discussed specifically in the context of San Francisco, because it's not unique. It's human nature not to report certain crimes. But the fact that the media obsesses over San Francisco is part of a broader narrative of making it the poster child for anti-liberalism, even while certain conservative cities have terrible crime and poverty as well. Really, I'm reported crime is not even a newsworthy story in the first place. It has always existed in every city in the world. That's just part of life.
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Old 06-19-2023, 09:41 AM
 
3,463 posts, read 5,257,554 times
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Originally Posted by mixxalot View Post
Well as much as I loved my years of living in San Diego, it definitely has a seriously bad homeless problem and sky high cost of living.
Indeed, I think it's the second most expensive city in the country now, based on the combination of rents, real estate prices, eating out, groceries, gas prices, utilities, and water. So even if some cities have more expensive real estate, all the other factors make us more expensive overall.

If you haven't been down here lately, the homeless situation is out of control in Hillcrest and East village. It's not nearly as bad in other areas, but East village and some areas just north of there around the Eastern side of downtown by the freeway and freeway overpasses is basically skid row. Hillcrest doesn't have tents, but you'll see deranged, completely filthy people walking around, probably one on every block. Luckily, the city council narrowly passed a new ordinance that will restrict where homeless encampments May exist, with the goal of getting them out of prime public areas so that people can enjoy the city again, and then concentrating the homeless into areas where they can receive services. We've actually increased shelter beds by 70% in the last few years, but we're still seeing more and more people on the streets than ever. Basically, we're helping more people than ever, but the influx of new homeless is increasing, and we can't keep up with that. But the goal is to force the homeless into accepting services or else making it harder on them. Otherwise, we are going to become a magnet for homelessness.

All that being said, we walked around the gaslamp quarter one afternoon last week, and it was very pleasant! I think we only saw one homeless person on 5th avenue, so they definitely don't overwhelm the main pedestrian area like they did during the pandemic. Since they're not in the habit of panhandling but just sleeping on the street in the middle of the day, they tend not to want to be where there is a lot of activity. Little Italy is similar, you'll see one or two stumbling about, but for the most part it's solid. The entirety of Mission Bay and Balboa Park will soon be cleared. The mayor's office is working relentlessly on this issue, but it is a very difficult thing when fentanyl is cheap and rampant.
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Old 06-19-2023, 10:07 AM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixxalot View Post
I’m waiting for open air weapons black markets to debut with the open air drug markets and farmers markets. It will make stocking up quite an experience to get drugs/meds, food and self defense appliances all in one place!

I recommend moving to Idaho (the old joke is that you typically find more firearms for sale at a flea market in Idaho than at a gun show in California)
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Old 06-19-2023, 10:16 AM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticpearl View Post
Walking down a street in many parts of SF or Oakland and realizing it is far unsafer than the majority of US or international cities of similar size, is certainly not an invented scenario.


Nobody's denying that some cities have higher crime rates than others. But you determine that crime rate by looking at the crime statistics for that city. Beyond that, you're not dealing with facts or evidence, you're just guessing based on things you see in a limited number of places.



Quote:

Actual crime is always greater than reported crime. On top of it in the Bay Area cops have been told to stand down more than just about anywhere else.

If actual crime is always greater than reported crime, as you say here, that implies that actual crime was also greater than reported crime when crime rates were higher. So reported crime rates are likely to correspond to unreported crime rates, ceteris paribus.
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Old 06-19-2023, 10:18 AM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
“Funny thing" about that response is there is nothing Funny about being a real victim. And what's sad, heart-breaking, and crushes the spirit is when your fellow man or woman does not believe you were a victim of crime.

So you were the victim of multiple crimes, but never reported any of them? Why not? Is your spirit already that crushed?
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Old 06-19-2023, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Elk Grove, CA
579 posts, read 511,535 times
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As someone who does this for a living, I can vouch that crime stats are a horrible metric. And easily manipulated. An officer gets a call about a bar fight in midtown. No one can get their story straight on who started, and neither party wants to press charges. And the responding officer does not have the time to waste writing a report, since neither party will be taken into custody.

So everyone agrees to drop the whole thing, and two violent crimes never get tallied in the stats. Same thing happens, with property crime. This happens dozens of times a day, just in Sac City limits.

So the "factual evidence" about crime is not an accurate reflection of the situation on the ground. It's like trying to analyze weather reports from 1800's, before they measured humidity, wind speed, barometric pressure, air quality, etc.

Safety is subjective and as liberals are showing, they have a very high tolerance for social decay and lawlessness. They view victims of crime as collateral damage, in their quest for socialist utopia.
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Old 06-19-2023, 12:31 PM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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So it sounds like the conservative response is that we just shouldn't gather crime statistics at all, because people who get into a meaningless bar fight don't want to press charges, based on the argument that the parties involved don't give identical accounts of what happened? What's your suggestion, go back to throwing people in a pond and if they don't drown it means the water rejected them and they're guilty of the crime?
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Old 06-20-2023, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Elk Grove, CA
579 posts, read 511,535 times
Reputation: 1099
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
So it sounds like the conservative response is that we just shouldn't gather crime statistics at all, because people who get into a meaningless bar fight don't want to press charges, based on the argument that the parties involved don't give identical accounts of what happened? What's your suggestion, go back to throwing people in a pond and if they don't drown it means the water rejected them and they're guilty of the crime?
The conservative response is to prosecute crime, make sure law enforcement is adequately staffed, and not rely on heavily manipulated stats to push a false narrative that crime is "down".

Again, people aren't stupid. A simple drive on the freeway or surface streets can give one all the impression they need as to the general lawlessness of Sac on a whole.

And the conservative solution is a lot better than the liberal one, which is to manipulate stats, push the decriminalization of criminal activity (ie moving the goal posts sell a false narrative), and light punishment for criminal behavior.
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Old 06-22-2023, 12:15 PM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
Reputation: 4685
So, to restate what you're saying here, the conservative response is based on impressions and feelings, not facts or statistics, and when shown facts or statistics that contradict their opinions, they're just accused of being fake, without any contrary evidence. Lawlessness and criminal activity are defined as looking like the conservative's idea of a criminal, which is considered to be something inherent to a person, rather than something that people do. Gotcha--you're not just moving the goalposts, you're putting wheels on them and racing down the highway!
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