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Old 06-15-2022, 05:58 PM
 
3,345 posts, read 2,306,314 times
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Is this the reason why Sacramento's real estate despite recent gains as with everywhere else around the state and nation is still well behind other metro areas in CA. Real Estate prices in the county despite record highs and gains these days, are is still quite down to earth compared to other popular metro areas of CA. I don't compare to the rest of the Central Valley as their population is smaller. Only Fresno and Bakersfield are somewhat larger. But it seems the price gap between Sacramento Valley and the Bay Area to the west got considerably larger than it was back in the 2000s in an apples to apples comparison ie per sq ft. Same with SoCal.

Though many people do hate Sacramento with passion, even those who never been there or know anything about it, as its where all California's buracracy that affects everything from the glamourous beaches off LA and southland as well as the mountains to the east and redwoods to the north, the Golden Gate to the west. In other words everything is all Sacramento's fault regardless of where you are in CA. Another thing is that buracrats in Sacramento almost never have to contend with drought conditions other parts of the state faces, in fact up to a decade or so ago they didnt even have water meters for those nice big homes. Electricity and other utilities are relatively quite affordable compared to other parts of the states as well for those politician's mansions so they are essentially in a bubble and don't care whats going on for the rest of the state.
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Old 06-15-2022, 05:59 PM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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Building more prisons is also throwing taxpayer money at a problem (just much, much more money), and does not solve the problem of getting people to not become drug addicts either. But with education, the ones who don't drop out and do drugs (and generally a smaller percentage) are likely to have better educational and economic outcomes than those who go to prison!


But we're getting far afield of talking about Sacramento here.
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:27 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 3,301,161 times
Reputation: 6359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Well that's certainly not happening here in spite of Schubert, if you live in the County you can't get a deputy to respond unless it's an emergency, so if no one is arrested it's really hard to threaten anything. And we've spent a trillion dollars in 50 years on the war on drugs and neither supply or demand have decreased.

PS you might want to read the entire article for the Walgreen stores closing, it debunks the story about the stores closing because of theft, the stores were already destined to close because they weren't generating enough sales. Regarding Target, I don't doubt that they are closing early because of theft, that's why the Winco Store in Country Club Centre closes at midnight while other Winco stores are still open 24/7
There are problems at the State level and there are local problems that can make the situation worse.

In San Francisco, they adopted a bunch of policies that were well meaning and in isolation might even have been good ideas, but the combined effect was a disaster.

In San Francisco, next to the Civic Center, the City set up a City managed shooting gallery. The idea was that addicts could get clean needles and if anyone overdosed, there were healthcare workers availble to mitigate the harm. Once the shooting gallery opened up, the drug dealers started gathering outside, to supply the addicts. The DA, Chesa Boudin also refused to arrest drug addicts arguing that the solution to addiction was treatment and not jail. The DA, also refused to arrest drug dealers because if they were arrested the drug dealers might be sent back to Honduras and he felt that would be violating the City's commitment to be a sanctuary for Honduran refugees.

Now under Prop 47, if you steal less than $950, you don't go to jail. That created this entire drug econonmy where addicts where shop lifting to fund their habit and they weren't serving jail time. This is the reason Target is cutting its hours in SF and Walgreens is closing stores. That hasn't happened here yet.

But the problem is that if drug addicts face no threat of arrest, they also see no reason to agree to go to treatment. If drug cartels know that Honduran drug dealers are not going to get arrested, they will keep bringing in additional drug dealers and that will drive down the price fentanyl, herion meth, etc, which attracts more addicts to your community.

But to interupt this cycle you really do need the DA to threaten to prosecute if for no other reason than to create an incentive for addicts to agree to drug treatment. Real Clear Investigations has a great piece on what was going wrong in SF.

https://www.realclearinvestigations....in_836918.html

Now what is going on in Sacramento? As you pointed out Winco had to reduce hours because of too much shrinkage. What I noticed is now when you are at Walmart trying to buy socks and underwear, those are behind a glassdoor and you need to get staff to get those products out for you and then they walk the products to the cashier. During covid the fentynal/meth situation got much worse. Its not as bad as SF, but its much worse than 3 years ago. But I also see prop 47 as part of the problem too, its enabling addicts to get away with shoplifting. But I also think you really do need a DA to actually threaten to arrest people to get them to agree to go to treatment.

I see nothing wrong with drug courts where people agree to go to treatment in liu of jail, but I think you really do need some sort of stick to get addicts to agree to treatment.
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Old 06-16-2022, 06:56 PM
 
8,673 posts, read 17,274,555 times
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People don't decide to get clean because they're afraid of jail, even in places where possession will get you 25 years. And sticks (metaphoric or otherwise) are not a good way to get people to make wiser choices about their lives. It just encourages them to hide the behavior that's getting them beaten, which makes that behavior hard to address (because admitting to it is asking for a beating with a stick.)
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
There are problems at the State level and there are local problems that can make the situation worse.

In San Francisco, they adopted a bunch of policies that were well meaning and in isolation might even have been good ideas, but the combined effect was a disaster.

In San Francisco, next to the Civic Center, the City set up a City managed shooting gallery. The idea was that addicts could get clean needles and if anyone overdosed, there were healthcare workers availble to mitigate the harm. Once the shooting gallery opened up, the drug dealers started gathering outside, to supply the addicts. The DA, Chesa Boudin also refused to arrest drug addicts arguing that the solution to addiction was treatment and not jail. The DA, also refused to arrest drug dealers because if they were arrested the drug dealers might be sent back to Honduras and he felt that would be violating the City's commitment to be a sanctuary for Honduran refugees.

Now under Prop 47, if you steal less than $950, you don't go to jail. That created this entire drug econonmy where addicts where shop lifting to fund their habit and they weren't serving jail time. This is the reason Target is cutting its hours in SF and Walgreens is closing stores. That hasn't happened here yet.

But the problem is that if drug addicts face no threat of arrest, they also see no reason to agree to go to treatment. If drug cartels know that Honduran drug dealers are not going to get arrested, they will keep bringing in additional drug dealers and that will drive down the price fentanyl, herion meth, etc, which attracts more addicts to your community.

But to interupt this cycle you really do need the DA to threaten to prosecute if for no other reason than to create an incentive for addicts to agree to drug treatment. Real Clear Investigations has a great piece on what was going wrong in SF.

https://www.realclearinvestigations....in_836918.html

Now what is going on in Sacramento? As you pointed out Winco had to reduce hours because of too much shrinkage. What I noticed is now when you are at Walmart trying to buy socks and underwear, those are behind a glassdoor and you need to get staff to get those products out for you and then they walk the products to the cashier. During covid the fentynal/meth situation got much worse. Its not as bad as SF, but its much worse than 3 years ago. But I also see prop 47 as part of the problem too, its enabling addicts to get away with shoplifting. But I also think you really do need a DA to actually threaten to arrest people to get them to agree to go to treatment.

I see nothing wrong with drug courts where people agree to go to treatment in liu of jail, but I think you really do need some sort of stick to get addicts to agree to treatment.
Good God, you think that a $950 threshold for felony shoplifting is too high but the threshold in Texas and Wisconsin is $2500 and there has been no increase in shoplifting? If we need a DA to threaten to arrest people to go to treatment what the hell went wrong in Sacramento? Schubert told us repeatedly how tough she is on crime lol. It costs about a thousand a month to keep a person in a California state prison, 85% of addicts who participate in coerced drug treatment relapse within a year - how much are you willing to spend to make some kind of magic happen and cure addiction?

By the way I suggested that you read your Walgreens article but I guess you didn't. The stores that were closed had already been slated for closing, it had nothing to do with shoplifting. https://48hills.org/2021/10/no-walgr...f-shoplifting/
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
The purpose of the BLM insurrection was to change police procedures. That happened. We are now dealing with the consequences of that. The more you defund the police and stop enforcing the law the more unlivable your city becomes. That was why Chesa Boudin was recalled in SF, the drug dealers were running amok and stores were closing due to all of the shoplifting that the junkies were doing to fund their addictions. But sure go ahead defund the police. Let us see how well that goes here.
No, Boudin was recalled because a few people with a lot of money spent a ton on advertising, and a very ambitious Deputy DA, Don DuBain who got run out of Solano County for withholding evidence from the defense became the mouthpiece for the recall campaign. Nothing will change with Boudin gone, and he didn't have jack to do with shoplifting and 'running amok'. And SF like most other cities were 're-funded' shortly after being de-funded. Sacramento increased it's budget and guess what? We still had an increase in violent crime that surpassed San Francisco's. I understand that you want simple, neat answers to these issues, but there aren't any. Crime rates are complex and in retrospect it's very difficult even for experts to figure out why they went up or down at a given time, in a given place. And Walgreens lied, those stores were designated as being on the list to close down long before the surge in shoplifting.
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Old 06-17-2022, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
190 posts, read 298,982 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Building more prisons is also throwing taxpayer money at a problem (just much, much more money), and does not solve the problem of getting people to not become drug addicts either. But with education, the ones who don't drop out and do drugs (and generally a smaller percentage) are likely to have better educational and economic outcomes than those who go to prison!


But we're getting far afield of talking about Sacramento here.
These issues are not at all far afield of talking about Sacramento.
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Old 06-17-2022, 10:56 AM
 
4,021 posts, read 3,301,161 times
Reputation: 6359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No, Boudin was recalled because a few people with a lot of money spent a ton on advertising, and a very ambitious Deputy DA, Don DuBain who got run out of Solano County for withholding evidence from the defense became the mouthpiece for the recall campaign. Nothing will change with Boudin gone, and he didn't have jack to do with shoplifting and 'running amok'. And SF like most other cities were 're-funded' shortly after being de-funded. Sacramento increased it's budget and guess what? We still had an increase in violent crime that surpassed San Francisco's. I understand that you want simple, neat answers to these issues, but there aren't any. Crime rates are complex and in retrospect it's very difficult even for experts to figure out why they went up or down at a given time, in a given place. And Walgreens lied, those stores were designated as being on the list to close down long before the surge in shoplifting.
But you are ignoring the underlying cause of why the stores had to close. The Walgreens in San Francisco used to be profitable, that is why they originally opened so many of them, so why did they close so many of them now? What changed?

It has everything to do with shoplifting. Shoplifting in San Francisco is 4 times the chains national average. That made the stores unprofitable. Walgreens itself says they are closing the stores because of shoplifting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/u...-epidemic.html

That is why Walgreens is closing stores in San Francisco and why Target is reducing hours in San Francisco. Shoplifting is a huge problem in San Francisco.

Now the question is why is Target reducing hours in SF and Walgreens closing so many stores in SF, but in Sacramento Target has not felt the same need to reduce its operating hours and we are not seeing Walgreens repeatedly closing stores here like in SF? I would say the big difference is we have better policing and better law enforcement. Could they be better? Yes? Are they perfect? No. But they are much better than the very low bar set by SF. The voters in SF agree with me, they recalled the DA.

The part of Carmichael I used to live in was probably was probably one of the nicer parts of Sacramento County and my immediate former neighborhood was a nice place to live. But in general I think the closer you live to the City of Sacramento the worse the region gets and it is rapidly becoming a place as undesirable to live as the City of Sacramento in part because civic breakdown. How safe do you feel shopping at the Arden Fair Mall? Or at Winco? Or at the Target on Fulton? Homelessness and crime was getting out of control and I really don't think any of that is going to turn around and I think things are only going to get worse there. After the 24 hourfitness at Arden and Fair Oaks closed I started going to the the one on Fulton and Hurley (because my membership hadn't expired ) and there were car break ins fairly regularly there. So no I am by no means a huge fan of how the law enforcement community works in Sacramento, City or County. I am just saying its better than SF. But I also think with the new DA in Sacramento County and the new Sherrif, things are going to get much worse.

This was also a big reason I moved to Folsom and honestly, Folsom wasn't my first choice, I was looking more at Placer and El Dorado Counties, but the place I bought in in Folsom was just a much better deal than the other stuff I looked at.
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Old 06-17-2022, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,838 posts, read 26,236,305 times
Reputation: 34038
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
But you are ignoring the underlying cause of why the stores had to close. The Walgreens in San Francisco used to be profitable, that is why they originally opened so many of them, so why did they close so many of them now? What changed?
Amazon, people find it more convenient to buy their cosmetics, Band-Aids and cough syrup online. Chain drug stores have been closing in large numbers all over the US: https://www.google.com/search?q=clos...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
It has everything to do with shoplifting. Shoplifting in San Francisco is 4 times the chains national average. That made the stores unprofitable. Walgreens itself says they are closing the stores because of shoplifting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/u...-epidemic.html
That is why Walgreens is closing stores in San Francisco and why Target is reducing hours in San Francisco. Shoplifting is a huge problem in San Francisco.
Nonsense, Kern County is considered the "tough on crime" capitol of California: "what about the big crimes like homicide and other violent offenses? Kern County’s violent crime rate is 24 percent higher than San Francisco’s, including a homicide rate more than twice as high. Add the fact that Kern’s shoplifting rate is now 23 percent higher, and it becomes clear that get-tough, anti-crime crackdowns are not a panacea.Herd journalism and the phony San Francisco “shoplifting epidemic” — Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
Now the question is why is Target reducing hours in SF and Walgreens closing so many stores in SF, but in Sacramento Target has not felt the same need to reduce its operating hours and we are not seeing Walgreens repeatedly closing stores here like in SF? I would say the big difference is we have better policing and better law enforcement. Could they be better? Yes? Are they perfect? No. But they are much better than the very low bar set by SF. The voters in SF agree with me, they recalled the DA.
You are buying the story that Walgreen's wants you to believe, once again - the reality is quite different: Walgreens has blamed organized shoplifting rings for the company’s recent decision to close five of its 53 San Francisco locations, including the one targeted in June, telling the New York Times that stores in that city experience retail theft that is “five times our chain average.” The San Francisco Chronicle, however, found that those five stores averaged only two calls a month for shoplifting since 2018, according to police reports, and local observers pointed to other potential reasons for the closures, including a long-planned “store optimization” program and a pandemic drop in foot traffic.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ld-fascination
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
The part of Carmichael I used to live in was probably was probably one of the nicer parts of Sacramento County and my immediate former neighborhood was a nice place to live. But in general I think the closer you live to the City of Sacramento the worse the region gets and it is rapidly becoming a place as undesirable to live as the City of Sacramento in part because civic breakdown. How safe do you feel shopping at the Arden Fair Mall? Or at Winco? Or at the Target on Fulton? Homelessness and crime was getting out of control and I really don't think any of that is going to turn around and I think things are only going to get worse there. After the 24 hourfitness at Arden and Fair Oaks closed I started going to the the one on Fulton and Hurley (because my membership hadn't expired ) and there were car break ins fairly regularly there. So no I am by no means a huge fan of how the law enforcement community works in Sacramento, City or County. I am just saying its better than SF. But I also think with the new DA in Sacramento County and the new Sherrif, things are going to get much worse.
I'm not afraid to shop anywhere in Sac County, if I was I would move. From the Guardian: While some have also accused progressive prosecutors in LA and San Francisco of not taking these crimes seriously, advocates have noted that high-profile smash and grab cases and retail thefts had occurred in both cities before the current DAs were elected. In San Francisco, data also shows that prosecutors have filed charges for the vast majority of commercial burglary cases that police have presented to the DA this year. And in LA, advocates noted that property crime is down compared to the 2019, when the previous DA was in office. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...etail-policing

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
This was also a big reason I moved to Folsom and honestly, Folsom wasn't my first choice, I was looking more at Placer and El Dorado Counties, but the place I bought in in Folsom was just a much better deal than the other stuff I looked at.
You can run but you can't hide, eventually people will find a new "white flight destination" and Folsom will fall into disrepair and exhibit the kind of crime rates you see in all those awful, scary places in Sac County.
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Old 06-17-2022, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
190 posts, read 298,982 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
But you are ignoring the underlying cause of why the stores had to close. The Walgreens in San Francisco used to be profitable, that is why they originally opened so many of them, so why did they close so many of them now? What changed?

It has everything to do with shoplifting. Shoplifting in San Francisco is 4 times the chains national average. That made the stores unprofitable. Walgreens itself says they are closing the stores because of shoplifting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/u...-epidemic.html

That is why Walgreens is closing stores in San Francisco and why Target is reducing hours in San Francisco. Shoplifting is a huge problem in San Francisco.

Now the question is why is Target reducing hours in SF and Walgreens closing so many stores in SF, but in Sacramento Target has not felt the same need to reduce its operating hours and we are not seeing Walgreens repeatedly closing stores here like in SF? I would say the big difference is we have better policing and better law enforcement. Could they be better? Yes? Are they perfect? No. But they are much better than the very low bar set by SF. The voters in SF agree with me, they recalled the DA.

The part of Carmichael I used to live in was probably was probably one of the nicer parts of Sacramento County and my immediate former neighborhood was a nice place to live. But in general I think the closer you live to the City of Sacramento the worse the region gets and it is rapidly becoming a place as undesirable to live as the City of Sacramento in part because civic breakdown. How safe do you feel shopping at the Arden Fair Mall? Or at Winco? Or at the Target on Fulton? Homelessness and crime was getting out of control and I really don't think any of that is going to turn around and I think things are only going to get worse there. After the 24 hourfitness at Arden and Fair Oaks closed I started going to the the one on Fulton and Hurley (because my membership hadn't expired ) and there were car break ins fairly regularly there. So no I am by no means a huge fan of how the law enforcement community works in Sacramento, City or County. I am just saying its better than SF. But I also think with the new DA in Sacramento County and the new Sherrif, things are going to get much worse.

This was also a big reason I moved to Folsom and honestly, Folsom wasn't my first choice, I was looking more at Placer and El Dorado Counties, but the place I bought in in Folsom was just a much better deal than the other stuff I looked at.
Thanks once again for telling it like it is. The other guy posted a hokey article that claimed that "Walgreens stole $4.5 million from its workers" so i doubt that you will be able to reason with him.
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