U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Sacramento
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-18-2022, 01:02 PM
 
3,489 posts, read 2,546,080 times
Reputation: 5387

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Amazon, people find it more convenient to buy their cosmetics, Band-Aids and cough syrup online. Chain drug stores have been closing in large numbers all over the US: https://www.google.com/search?q=clos...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Nonsense, Kern County is considered the "tough on crime" capitol of California: "what about the big crimes like homicide and other violent offenses? Kern County’s violent crime rate is 24 percent higher than San Francisco’s, including a homicide rate more than twice as high. Add the fact that Kern’s shoplifting rate is now 23 percent higher, and it becomes clear that get-tough, anti-crime crackdowns are not a panacea.Herd journalism and the phony San Francisco “shoplifting epidemic” — Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice
You are buying the story that Walgreen's wants you to believe, once again - the reality is quite different: Walgreens has blamed organized shoplifting rings for the company’s recent decision to close five of its 53 San Francisco locations, including the one targeted in June, telling the New York Times that stores in that city experience retail theft that is “five times our chain average.” The San Francisco Chronicle, however, found that those five stores averaged only two calls a month for shoplifting since 2018, according to police reports, and local observers pointed to other potential reasons for the closures, including a long-planned “store optimization” program and a pandemic drop in foot traffic.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ld-fascination
I'm not afraid to shop anywhere in Sac County, if I was I would move. From the Guardian: While some have also accused progressive prosecutors in LA and San Francisco of not taking these crimes seriously, advocates have noted that high-profile smash and grab cases and retail thefts had occurred in both cities before the current DAs were elected. In San Francisco, data also shows that prosecutors have filed charges for the vast majority of commercial burglary cases that police have presented to the DA this year. And in LA, advocates noted that property crime is down compared to the 2019, when the previous DA was in office. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...etail-policing

You can run but you can't hide, eventually people will find a new "white flight destination" and Folsom will fall into disrepair and exhibit the kind of crime rates you see in all those awful, scary places in Sac County.

I don't find your argument persuasive at all. Amazon is selling in both Sacramento and San Francisco. If Amazon was the reason for store closures in San Francisco, it should be creating similiar issues in Sacramento. Walgreens isn't closing lots of stores in Sacramento, Target isn't reducing hours in Sacramento. Instead we are hearing a consistent story from everyone who sells retail in San Francisco, shoplifting is up and we are losing money as a result of that.

Yes I believe Walgreens because the story is consistent with Target's experience and because they have really good data on it, they know what their stores sales are.

Finally we have videotapes of this happening in San Francisco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWspy47dYXI

So no I don't think they are making this up. Yes I believe Walgreens, but I also believe the voters of San Francisco. They got rid of their DA, because the voters themselves noticed things were getting worse on his watch and his policies weren't working.

Did you feel comfortable walking alone through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot after dark on Fulton and Hurley after dark? If I had a wife or daughter, I wouldn't want my daughter or wife do that, but I wouldn't have issues with them going through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot in Folsom after dark. There are just too many sketchy people milling about off Fulton after dark, you have the car break ins. You have homeless encampment behind the 7 Eleven there and since the Mexican Grocery Store closed, the minimall couldn't afford the rent a cops, but that minimall has so many vacancies because of the homeless encampments, women don't feel safe shopping there, so they can't lease up the space. If you cut back on policing, what do you think is going to happen in this neighborhood?

As to whether California is messed up, I agree completely. The state is going downhill because of self imposed errors like prop 47 and just an overall unwillingness to acknowledge let alone confront or fix problems. But moving is often the best way to improve things. When I moved to Folsom, my shopping choices got much better. Moreover moving away can cause the places where people are leaving to decide to change for the better so that their neighborhoods don't deteriorate any further. Moving is often your best choice especially when voting is no longer effective at fixing problems. If and when Folsom deteriorates further, I will just move again. My parents aren't going to be alive for ever, and when they go, so will I.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-18-2022, 02:48 PM
 
1,885 posts, read 4,509,006 times
Reputation: 1760
To be honest all the Central Valley Cities/Towns get a bad rap simply because of it's "Location",even though there are a lot of nice cities/towns in the Central Valley that's just like anytown USA,but like some have said on here "The Bay Area" takes the spotlight away from Sacramento,just as Los Angeles and San Diego in Southern California does.

Sacramento has a lot going for it,and it's in close proximity to The Bay Area and The Mountains too,but some people are simply not happy in California and will never be happy anywhere in this State.

In other words move to the state you consider as "The Promised Land"
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2022, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
177 posts, read 264,257 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
I don't find your argument persuasive at all. Amazon is selling in both Sacramento and San Francisco. If Amazon was the reason for store closures in San Francisco, it should be creating similiar issues in Sacramento. Walgreens isn't closing lots of stores in Sacramento, Target isn't reducing hours in Sacramento. Instead we are hearing a consistent story from everyone who sells retail in San Francisco, shoplifting is up and we are losing money as a result of that.

Yes I believe Walgreens because the story is consistent with Target's experience and because they have really good data on it, they know what their stores sales are.

Finally we have videotapes of this happening in San Francisco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWspy47dYXI

So no I don't think they are making this up. Yes I believe Walgreens, but I also believe the voters of San Francisco. They got rid of their DA, because the voters themselves noticed things were getting worse on his watch and his policies weren't working.

Did you feel comfortable walking alone through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot after dark on Fulton and Hurley after dark? If I had a wife or daughter, I wouldn't want my daughter or wife do that, but I wouldn't have issues with them going through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot in Folsom after dark. There are just too many sketchy people milling about off Fulton after dark, you have the car break ins. You have homeless encampment behind the 7 Eleven there and since the Mexican Grocery Store closed, the minimall couldn't afford the rent a cops, but that minimall has so many vacancies because of the homeless encampments, women don't feel safe shopping there, so they can't lease up the space. If you cut back on policing, what do you think is going to happen in this neighborhood?

As to whether California is messed up, I agree completely. The state is going downhill because of self imposed errors like prop 47 and just an overall unwillingness to acknowledge let alone confront or fix problems. But moving is often the best way to improve things. When I moved to Folsom, my shopping choices got much better. Moreover moving away can cause the places where people are leaving to decide to change for the better so that their neighborhoods don't deteriorate any further. Moving is often your best choice especially when voting is no longer effective at fixing problems. If and when Folsom deteriorates further, I will just move again. My parents aren't going to be alive for ever, and when they go, so will I.
Thanks for sharing your straightforward assessment along with your own personal experiences. Another way to put it: People Vote With Their Feet.

And the video you shared tells the story loud and clear. As one commenter to the video said: “there’s nothing brazen about this since the criminals know that they aren’t going to be held responsible. There’s literally zero chance that they will be arrested or punished.”
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2022, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
40,901 posts, read 22,039,242 times
Reputation: 31846
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
I don't find your argument persuasive at all. Amazon is selling in both Sacramento and San Francisco. If Amazon was the reason for store closures in San Francisco, it should be creating similiar issues in Sacramento. Walgreens isn't closing lots of stores in Sacramento, Target isn't reducing hours in Sacramento. Instead we are hearing a consistent story from everyone who sells retail in San Francisco, shoplifting is up and we are losing money as a result of that.

Yes I believe Walgreens because the story is consistent with Target's experience and because they have really good data on it, they know what their stores sales are.
Finally we have videotapes of this happening in San Francisco.
So no I don't think they are making this up. Yes I believe Walgreens, but I also believe the voters of San Francisco. They got rid of their DA, because the voters themselves noticed things were getting worse on his watch and his policies weren't working.
Did you feel comfortable walking alone through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot after dark on Fulton and Hurley after dark? If I had a wife or daughter, I wouldn't want my daughter or wife do that, but I wouldn't have issues with them going through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot in Folsom after dark. There are just too many sketchy people milling about off Fulton after dark, you have the car break ins. You have homeless encampment behind the 7 Eleven there and since the Mexican Grocery Store closed, the minimall couldn't afford the rent a cops, but that minimall has so many vacancies because of the homeless encampments, women don't feel safe shopping there, so they can't lease up the space. If you cut back on policing, what do you think is going to happen in this neighborhood?
As to whether California is messed up, I agree completely. The state is going downhill because of self imposed errors like prop 47 and just an overall unwillingness to acknowledge let alone confront or fix problems. But moving is often the best way to improve things. When I moved to Folsom, my shopping choices got much better. Moreover moving away can cause the places where people are leaving to decide to change for the better so that their neighborhoods don't deteriorate any further. Moving is often your best choice especially when voting is no longer effective at fixing problems. If and when Folsom deteriorates further, I will just move again. My parents aren't going to be alive for ever, and when they go, so will I.
Nothing that I said was an opinion, it was all backed up by reputable verifiable sources yet you want to argue it ad nauseum and keep repeating stuff that has been debunked. I provided evidence that Walgreens intended to close those stores years before they actually did and you just ignore it. Now you are talking about how "cutting down on policing" made the mini-mall at Fulton and Hurley dangerous, well that is county and the Sheriff didn't have any cuts, instead they got a big fat raise, just like the City did. Neither was "defunded", so who are you going to blame now?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-18-2022, 11:51 PM
 
6,163 posts, read 6,979,498 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
I don't find your argument persuasive at all. Amazon is selling in both Sacramento and San Francisco. If Amazon was the reason for store closures in San Francisco, it should be creating similiar issues in Sacramento. Walgreens isn't closing lots of stores in Sacramento, Target isn't reducing hours in Sacramento. Instead we are hearing a consistent story from everyone who sells retail in San Francisco, shoplifting is up and we are losing money as a result of that.

Yes I believe Walgreens because the story is consistent with Target's experience and because they have really good data on it, they know what their stores sales are.

Finally we have videotapes of this happening in San Francisco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWspy47dYXI

So no I don't think they are making this up. Yes I believe Walgreens, but I also believe the voters of San Francisco. They got rid of their DA, because the voters themselves noticed things were getting worse on his watch and his policies weren't working.

Did you feel comfortable walking alone through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot after dark on Fulton and Hurley after dark? If I had a wife or daughter, I wouldn't want my daughter or wife do that, but I wouldn't have issues with them going through the 24 Hour Fitness parking lot in Folsom after dark. There are just too many sketchy people milling about off Fulton after dark, you have the car break ins. You have homeless encampment behind the 7 Eleven there and since the Mexican Grocery Store closed, the minimall couldn't afford the rent a cops, but that minimall has so many vacancies because of the homeless encampments, women don't feel safe shopping there, so they can't lease up the space. If you cut back on policing, what do you think is going to happen in this neighborhood?

As to whether California is messed up, I agree completely. The state is going downhill because of self imposed errors like prop 47 and just an overall unwillingness to acknowledge let alone confront or fix problems. But moving is often the best way to improve things. When I moved to Folsom, my shopping choices got much better. Moreover moving away can cause the places where people are leaving to decide to change for the better so that their neighborhoods don't deteriorate any further. Moving is often your best choice especially when voting is no longer effective at fixing problems. If and when Folsom deteriorates further, I will just move again. My parents aren't going to be alive for ever, and when they go, so will I.
Wise words Shelato.

I'm worried for Sacramento's central core and parts of Arden-Arcade. But its not just Sacramento, the whole nation is experiencing the demise of their downtowns.

"Downtowns", "central cities" are "over". I've been all across the nation and to dozens of big cities in the last half of 2021 and this year and every downtown is vacant, lifeless, filled with crime and homeless, drug addicts. Even in New York City comparing 2019 with 2022 worlds apart, downtown LA horrible. Downtowns and central cities are no longer dense, vibrant, safe, "urban paradises". When half or more of downtown city office buildings are vacant; and, restaurants, coffee shops, bars, department type clothing stores, retail shops, drugstores (Walgreens/Duane Reade, Rite-Aide) are closed or closing there is little reason to live in urban walkable downtowns. You can definitely blame Amazon type companies as the reason for the closures but after 2020's riots, and continued lawlessness, homeless camps, and overall criminal behavior downtowns are no longer fun or pleasant. They are definitely not "vibrant" any more, nobody really wants to be "out on the streets" like they used to be in 2019. And when you "force yourself" to go to downtown venues you realize that it was more vibrant more fun to actually go to a suburban type place....like in Folsom or Fair Oaks.

We have a friend, early thirties, gay guy, politically very liberal, who moved to Sacramento's midtown 11 years ago, he loved midtown, but 3 years ago before covid, he moved to Tahoe because his midtown apartment and his car were repeatedly broken into. Homeless type folks and drug addicts were constantly disturbing him so he left for a small town. Will this trend continue? I mean this is an "urban type guy" who chose to move to a small town instead of another city or another big city, why, because all the other big "downtowns" are experiencing the same bad things as Sacramento's downtown.

I regularly see open shoplifting now, a guy came into a Grocery Outlet filled it up with mostly produce of all things, a lot of it too, and wheeled it out to his car, threw the stash into his trunk, nobody said anything, others noticed his actions like me and didn't say anything....at SaveMart a woman had one of those red handheld carts, filled it up and walked right out.....neither of these people looked like they were homeless/drug addicts or criminals...they were dressed nicer than me, and well-groomed with nice cars......makes me wonder....is the $950 no penalty law encouraging your average Joe to steal groceries, folks who would normally never think of stealing....could this be a minor or major factor for inflation at least in California....?

Last edited by Chimérique; 06-19-2022 at 12:31 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2022, 09:44 AM
 
8,605 posts, read 16,282,488 times
Reputation: 4516
I dunno, I went for a walk along J Street in Midtown yesterday and it was pretty lively, like pre-COVID lively, busy stores, people strolling along the street, people just enjoying the city. It wasn't a big Second Saturday circa 2010 drunken barn dance, just comfortably energetic with a lot of people present. If people vote with their feet, they were definitely voting for Sacramento this weekend.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2022, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
177 posts, read 264,257 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
I dunno, I went for a walk along J Street in Midtown yesterday and it was pretty lively, like pre-COVID lively, busy stores, people strolling along the street, people just enjoying the city. It wasn't a big Second Saturday circa 2010 drunken barn dance, just comfortably energetic with a lot of people present. If people vote with their feet, they were definitely voting for Sacramento this weekend.
I would say that you and Shelato are both correct in describing what you see. It all depends on where you look, and when.

But you may have heard about what defines a "Conservative" -- a former liberal who has been mugged/robbed, etc. It could happen to you or one of your friends someday. And then you might look at what sort of policies were accommodating the criminals . . .
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2022, 11:47 AM
 
331 posts, read 452,197 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Nothing that I said was an opinion, it was all backed up by reputable verifiable sources yet you want to argue it ad nauseum and keep repeating stuff that has been debunked. I provided evidence that Walgreens intended to close those stores years before they actually did and you just ignore it. Now you are talking about how "cutting down on policing" made the mini-mall at Fulton and Hurley dangerous, well that is county and the Sheriff didn't have any cuts, instead they got a big fat raise, just like the City did. Neither was "defunded", so who are you going to blame now?
Most of what you were arguing were opinions. You were arguing that shoplifting and crime weren't issues in San Francisco and that soft on crime policies worked. You were claiming that Walgreens wasn't closing stores because of crime. You argued the DA wasn't recalled in SF because voters disapproved with the direction the city was going but because they were confused by big money donors. All of these assertions are opinions. Which is fine, but ou just didn't do a good job backing up your opinions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Wise words Shelato.

I'm worried for Sacramento's central core and parts of Arden-Arcade. But its not just Sacramento, the whole nation is experiencing the demise of their downtowns.

"Downtowns", "central cities" are "over". I've been all across the nation and to dozens of big cities in the last half of 2021 and this year and every downtown is vacant, lifeless, filled with crime and homeless, drug addicts. Even in New York City comparing 2019 with 2022 worlds apart, downtown LA horrible. Downtowns and central cities are no longer dense, vibrant, safe, "urban paradises". When half or more of downtown city office buildings are vacant; and, restaurants, coffee shops, bars, department type clothing stores, retail shops, drugstores (Walgreens/Duane Reade, Rite-Aide) are closed or closing there is little reason to live in urban walkable downtowns. You can definitely blame Amazon type companies as the reason for the closures but after 2020's riots, and continued lawlessness, homeless camps, and overall criminal behavior downtowns are no longer fun or pleasant. They are definitely not "vibrant" any more, nobody really wants to be "out on the streets" like they used to be in 2019. And when you "force yourself" to go to downtown venues you realize that it was more vibrant more fun to actually go to a suburban type place....like in Folsom or Fair Oaks.

We have a friend, early thirties, gay guy, politically very liberal, who moved to Sacramento's midtown 11 years ago, he loved midtown, but 3 years ago before covid, he moved to Tahoe because his midtown apartment and his car were repeatedly broken into. Homeless type folks and drug addicts were constantly disturbing him so he left for a small town. Will this trend continue? I mean this is an "urban type guy" who chose to move to a small town instead of another city or another big city, why, because all the other big "downtowns" are experiencing the same bad things as Sacramento's downtown.

I regularly see open shoplifting now, a guy came into a Grocery Outlet filled it up with mostly produce of all things, a lot of it too, and wheeled it out to his car, threw the stash into his trunk, nobody said anything, others noticed his actions like me and didn't say anything....at SaveMart a woman had one of those red handheld carts, filled it up and walked right out.....neither of these people looked like they were homeless/drug addicts or criminals...they were dressed nicer than me, and well-groomed with nice cars......makes me wonder....is the $950 no penalty law encouraging your average Joe to steal groceries, folks who would normally never think of stealing....could this be a minor or major factor for inflation at least in California....?
I don't see downtowns as over yet nationwide. But the health of these communities is far more contingent on being percieved as safe. Do you still want to eat outside in a sidewalk cafe if you smell urine or feces? Walk around in downtown Stockton and ask yourself why isn't it an appealing place to hang out. Its a mixed use neighborhood with a waterfront, multiple sports stadiums and yet without a lot of people down there, one of the things that holds the area back is that it feels more seedy than safe. If your car is being broken into when you park downtown, are you going to want to drive there? My girlfriend's car Noe Valley has been broken into so many times, she got rid of the car because she couldn't afford to rent a garage, but she has watched guys shooting up on the Muni bus, so she doesn't feel real great taking public transit anymore either, especially at night, so she is looking to get out of the city.

Car breakins are so bad in SF right now, the Chronicle has a regularly updated tracker. But when you walk around in SF, you also can see these notes on the cars where people write, car unlocked no valuables inside, please don't break my car window again. I had never seen that before.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/sf-car-breakins/

Is SF a pretty place to live, yes. Do I think it is turning into Stockton tommorrow? No. But the trendline is currently going in the wrong direction. Do I think it can bounce back yes? But I think they have to work on making the place feel livable to current residents and potential residents.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2022, 11:58 AM
 
8,605 posts, read 16,282,488 times
Reputation: 4516
Quote:
Originally Posted by terranova View Post
I would say that you and Shelato are both correct in describing what you see. It all depends on where you look, and when.

But you may have heard about what defines a "Conservative" -- a former liberal who has been mugged/robbed, etc. It could happen to you or one of your friends someday. And then you might look at what sort of policies were accommodating the criminals . . .

I've been mugged and burglarized, in Sacramento, so have people I know, and somehow I have still failed to register as a Republican. The mugging took place in Capitol Park back in 1993, and let me tell you, Midtown and Downtown now are much safer than they were back then!

And I suppose, by contrast, do people become "liberal" after they lose a friend or family member to a mass shooting or school shooting? What sort of policies accommodate those criminals?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2022, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
177 posts, read 264,257 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
I've been mugged and burglarized, in Sacramento, so have people I know, and somehow I have still failed to register as a Republican. The mugging took place in Capitol Park back in 1993, and let me tell you, Midtown and Downtown now are much safer than they were back then!

And I suppose, by contrast, do people become "liberal" after they lose a friend or family member to a mass shooting or school shooting? What sort of policies accommodate those criminals?
Ok, first of all, it was derived from an old joke, such as: What is the definition of a Conservative? -- A liberal who has a teen-aged daughter. Sure, it's simplistic. But then there is some truth in humor.

Second, i fall into that category of being formerly left leaning, but now i am right leaning -- and my views on crime, criminal justice, social welfare have not changed. The left wing is getting wackier -- and getting their way in a lot of places. The progressives have done a lot of good things for the world, in the last century. But now the latest generation of progressives has sullied the good name of progressivism, bringing to us former males competing against women, gender-change operations paid for by tax payers, and the focus of this thread, allowing criminals to get away with stealing from stores, as long as it's less than $1,000. All crazy, imho.

Third, just because you want to see some more "conservative" policies against criminals, that doesn't mean that you have to register as a Republican. Especially since so many Republicans are beholden to the likes of Trump. You can register as an Independent -- or even a Democrat -- and still want to push things towards the Center, which is what the Democrats in San Francisco will do if they want to see some "conservative" policies towards criminals. And by "conservative" i simply mean common sense policies. You don't need to register as a Republican.

And finally, to answer your question, Yes, you can hold conservative views about some issues, like fiscal responsibility, deficit spending, and criminal justice, and still take the "liberal" position regarding gun control. And yes, i'd bet that conservative Republicans who lose family members to mass shootings with assault rifles will be more likely to re-consider the extent that the 2nd Amendment accommodates those types of criminals, since you were asking.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Sacramento

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top