"I Can't Live Downtown, I Have Children!" (Los Angeles: condo, houses)

[wburg]

Here's a story that might interest some:

Sacramento Press / Rebirth of Marshall School in Midtown

A Montessori elementary school is relocating to a downtown elementary school that was closed for decades.

Sacramento Press / Rebirth of Marshall School in Midtown

And it's not alone: the private Country Day School is expanding, and they are moving their high school to another historic Midtown school, the Newton Booth school. Now, Country Day is a very expensive private school, but the idea that such an exclusive and highly-rated school would WANT to relocate to the central city is indicative of a shift in how people think about this part of town.

Sacramento Press / Sacramento Country Day School to expand into the grid?

There are two other central city historic school buildings, Fremont at 24th and N and the old district administrative office at 16th and N. The district plans on divesting those properties--so who knows what could go into those buildings? Considering that two former schools are returning to that purpose, perhaps they could hold schools again--public, private, or charter.

SCUSD also has a new superintendent, who has pledged that his kids will attend SCUSD schools, unlike his predecessor. So things are looking up.

Sacramento, especially Midtown, is not like San Francisco. For the most part, they are environments that are potentially far more kid-friendly: lots of neighborhood parks, tree-lined streets (some with lots of traffic, some with very little) and a strong sense of community. The terrain is near ideal for biking, and the city has greatly increased the number of bike lanes in recent years. It's a lot more like Davis than San Francisco, except for the schools, and the scale. However, recently there have been some encouraging signs about the schools.

And as far as public high schools in Midtown/East Sac goes...all I can say is "WHERE'S MY HIGH SCHOOL?"

[Damnitjanet]

The reason midtown has so few people with kids is that the neighborhood isn't well set up for dealing with families. If you were single or gay and had no kids, I think midtown probably is a good choice. But when kids come into the situation, the negatives of the downtown grid greatly outweigh the positives.

The first is the issue of housing size. Having kids means having stuff. When they are born you need space for the crib, the bassinet, changing table and the diaper pale. Because toddlers go through a lot of bottles, you want a place with a dishwasher. Smaller children get bored easily, so you needs lot of different things to keep them occupied. This means big wheel, trike, stroller, skateboard and wagon. As they get older it might mean bikes, snowboards, skis, camping equipment and luggage rack. The house, the kitchen and garage in these homes are all just too small once you start having kids.

Kids generate a need for more space. One probably should also be putting away some money for helping to send the kids to college.

In the grid the cost per sqft is among the highest in the region. The overall median price isn't that high because the homes themselves are very small. That is fine if you don't have kids, you don't need the space. But when you have kids, you will trade off proximity from work, for bigger homes and better schools.

In suburban areas, there are plenty of other kids on the block for your kids to play with, so they aren't bored. In the grid, there isn't.

While there are parks in the grid, a lot of them aren't useful for families. In the places where the bathrooms haven't been closed, you often have homeless people living in them. The bathrooms in these public parks aren't clean. Its not a place one would feel comfortable changing a diaper in, or taking a three year old to go potty.

Because the public spaces aren't well suited for children, then there is the issue of the backyards in these homes. In the grid the backyards are dinky. You have no space for swing set or a backyard play structure. The streets themselves have too much traffic. In a cul de sac if your 3 year old runs out into the street, you correct them for running in the street, but in all likelihood, they aren't going to run into traffic. In the grid, your child's failure to obey your rule to not run in the street could be fatal. Why take that chance?

Lastly, there is the issue of station in life. The features of midtown are less appealing once you have kids. When kids come into the picture, you go out less often and the type of places you go to change. Kids are expensive, you need to save for them going to college, they need toys, clothes, food, healthcare and when you go out you need to pay for a sitter or bring them along. What this means is that your effective disposable income drops. You go out much less and when you do you are more likely to bring them to the type of location where kids are more appropriate.

People don't go to Applebees for the food. You go there because they have a children's menu, its affordable to bring the entire family and the place is noisy enough where if your toddler starts screaming, people won't be staring at you while you are trying to calm her down. The food is much better at Biba's, but Biba's is not as well suited for bringing small children. Does the bathroom there even have a changing table - at Applebees it will.

When you are married with kids you don't need or want to spend as much time in bars. You have a spouse, you don't need to go to a bar to find someone else. Moreover when you get home from work, you would rather play with your kids and your kids do better and go to sleep faster the more you sustain a regular routine. In short once you are married and have kids, the attractions of the grid are a lot less important to you. If you want to see anything in the grid, you can drive to it. But there is a lot less value to you in actually living in the grid.

The grid isn't well set up for families. Because of the passenger's side airbag could kill them, small children can't sit in the front seat of a car. Yet most passenger cars aren't set up for carrying more than two child seats in the back seat of the car - which is why families tend to end up with cars with multiple rows of back seats. If you have more kids than that or think you might go camping, want space to bring the stroller with you when you and the kids go shopping, or just expect at some point that you will need to ferry you and some of the other neighborhood kids to soccer practice, you are going to end up with either an SUV or a minivan. Have you tried parallel parking one of those things in the grid?

There is also just the issue of noise. The grid has a lot of bars and nightclubs and that means a lot of drunks wondering around at night. That noise is incompatible with trying to get your 5 year old to bed at 7:30 pm.

[mattinsac]

Tuition is 18,700 a year for the high school. If you can afford that, you can afford to live in Davis or Granite Bay, places with very high quality public schools. How many people living in midtown will actually be able to afford to send there kids to this school?

Tuition (http://www.saccds.org/Default.aspx?tabid=78 - broken link)

It doesn't look like the wanted to go to Newton Booth as much as the high school was kicked out of its current location. The problem as the previous location was inadequate parking which was causing conflicts with the neighbors. I will be curious to see how they handle that at this location.

The Octagon - Sacramento Country Day School - After over 30 years and 100 sites... Will the long and winding road to new campus finally end in downtown Sacramento?

[NYSD1995]

It's not just the schools.

I live in an inner-San Diego urban neighborhood. The schools are actually not the biggest problem - there are good schools nearby that we could get into with moderate effort.

The problem with the urban setting is that most of the amenities geared towards children - pediatricians, parks, childcare - are shared not only with the educated, upper-class urbanite parent, but the disrespectful, littering, poor and uneducated. Eventually, avoiding the problems they create becomes too much effort to be worthwhile. Sharing a waiting room with welfare mommas and a tagged-up park with the homeless is no fun after a while.

So we go to a doctor in La Jolla, drive a couple miles up the road to a nicer park in a nicer area. It works while the kids our young but eventually they will need to have some freedom to explore their world. We like our home but in the end, it's a temporary stop.

[CityGirl72]

Wburg, you know I love Midtown. It breaks my heart I'm not there. But just as it was SO well put by DamnitJanet, life is different - and I have so much STUFF - even when we moved we scaled down and still SO MUCH STUFF! Kid stuff. And my lifestyle is a kid/parent lifestyle - I BEG just for a moment to myself and LOVE the moment they go to bed as I finally get peace. All day is occupied with keeping them entertained - and the suburbs provide that ten fold...Culture and coffee house are great - but there's only so many times you can go to Crocker.

Plus that Applebee's scenario - GOD IT'S TRUE! It's miserable - I want Cafe Bernardo, but if there isn't chicken nuggets or mac n'cheese on the menu, my night is HELL.

I ADORE Midtown. I still drive out there - for myself. On Date Nights etc, and that is ohhhhh twice a year if we have a sitter.

I moved to Fair Oaks. It's good, a bit better - but I kind of wish we'd look at Folsom, as it seems even MORE family friendly. (but we are liberal so it's iffy)

[18Montclair]

The only real advantage of the suburbs I can think of is a bigger yard.

But all too many suburban teens tend to be incredibly materialistic imo. Far moreso than teens in urban areas. I don't like that one bit.

[micchio1]

Love midtown, especially around McKinley Park, but schools, schools, schools. Safety is another issue. As is expense. More for rent/mortgage, insurance, maintenance and utilities in old drafty houses, and maybe private school on top. More hassles with parking, less room, more noise. While I like the concept of my fellow men, I'm not particularly enamord with most of the ones I've met, and so I'd rather not be that close to so many of them. Man, do I hate the 'burbs, but you do what you gotta do for the best of your little ones. I grew up in a grimy apartment in an gritty urban area, and I would never put my kid through what I went through.

[wburg]

I don't have kids, but have friends in the central city (and in Oak Park) with kids ranging from toddlers to teens. and I like to think of those friends as fairly bright and interesting people, who are active, involved parents but still go out, they just find ways to involve the kids. Somehow, they manage. Some of them even bring their kids to coffeehouses! Unlike the assumptions of some, not every restaurant in the central city is like Biba's...some are even cheap, and have chicken nuggets. There are also kid-friendly central city activities like movies in the park, Chalk It Up, the cultural festivals that seem to happen every weekend, the farmer's markets, events put on by neighborhood associations, and so on.

If peace and quiet is your highest priority, then maybe it's not such a good place, but most kids seem to like a certain level of noise. I accept that Damnitjanet and I just don't see eye to eye on this issue, but just don't see it as being quite so cut and dried--and refuse to accept the status quo.

[ukiyo-e]

Originally Posted by wburg

I don't have kids...

Trust me, once you have kids, your attitudes about many things change - attitudes you thought were so thoroughly ingrained that they never would.

I have friends who had a baby a couple months ago, and suddenly the ancient tiny car they swore they'd never part with has become a lot less romantic in their eyes as they consider its poor crash test ratings and lack of airbags and other safety features that never bothered them when it was just them riding in it.

[City Boy]

What about all the city kids who grew up in the city and went to mediocre schools and succeeded in college and beyond? It's about applying yourself, not everybody goes to private suburban schools with college prep courses.

I was in college with plenty of kids like that at USF and many were great students , but others spoiled brats that couldn't do anything for themselves and were lazy and clueless about life. I think all that money spent on private elementary and high school stuff is overrated and unnecessary. It also shelters them from reality, a girl in one of my college classes who went to all private schools had no idea what a day laborer was.