"I Can't Live Downtown, I Have Children!" (San Francisco: real estate, crime)

[ukiyo-e]

Originally Posted by City Boy

What about all the city kids who grew up in the city and went to mediocre schools and succeeded in college and beyond? It's about applying yourself, not everybody goes to private suburban schools with college prep courses.

I was in college with plenty of kids like that at USF and many were great students , but others spoiled brats that couldn't do anything for themselves and were lazy and clueless about life. I think all that money spent on private elementary and high school stuff is overrated and unnecessary. It also shelters them from reality, a girl in one of my college classes who went to all private schools had no idea what a day laborer was.

Well, I worked at USF for many years and my ex was a professor there. I wouldn't judge all suburban/private school kids by those at that school. It's not known for being very selective. She sounds like she was just not very bright, and you're right, no amount of fancy schooling can overcome people who just don't have it or are intellectually lazy. I took quite a few business courses when I worked there and had a kid in an accounting class that didn't know what a shed was. Of all the colleges and universities that I've taken courses at (4), the students there were by far the worst.

By the way, being in a private elementary school did not shelter my kid one bit - it was in a "bad" part of SF, and several times when the kids got to school, there was blood all over the front door and sidewalk, and they had to use the back entrance while the teachers cleaned it up. There were also syringes and used condoms on the sidewalk in front of the school on a regular basis - so watch your stereotypes.

[City Boy]

Originally Posted by angelbug

Well, I worked at USF for many years and my ex was a professor there. I wouldn't judge all suburban/private school kids by those at that school. It's not known for being very selective. She sounds like she was just not very bright, and you're right, no amount of fancy schooling can overcome people who just don't have it or are intellectually lazy. I took quite a few business courses when I worked there and had a kid in an accounting class that didn't know what a shed was. Of all the colleges and universities that I've taken courses at (4), the students there were by far the worst.

By the way, being in a private elementary school did not shelter my kid one bit - it was in a "bad" part of SF, and several times when the kids got to school, there was blood all over the front door and sidewalk, and they had to use the back entrance while the teachers cleaned it up. There were also syringes and used condoms on the sidewalk in front of the school on a regular basis - so watch your stereotypes.

I'm willing to bet that private school was majority white and Asian right? So no interaction with different groups and classes other than a wealthy class? That is sheltered, even if "seeing" typical city stuff. They are not interacting with the population. Private schooling in SF is one of the most expensive in the country.

[ukiyo-e]

Originally Posted by City Boy

I'm willing to bet that private school was majority white and Asian right? So no interaction with different groups and classes other than a wealthy class? That is sheltered, even if "seeing" typical city stuff. They are not interacting with the population. Private schooling in SF is one of the most expensive in the country.

Not at ALL. You have no idea what you're talking about. The school was a funky alternative school with scholarships for underpriviledged kids. And it cost about half what the the other private schools in the city cost (at that time).

From their website:

"Synergy has 2 active student chapters of POCIS (People of Color in Independent Schools). Our current student body's racial diversity is:
13% African American, 1% African, 9% Asian American, 12% Latino/a, 7% Multi Racial, 58% Euro American."

It was just slightly over half white kids, and slightly under 10% Asian. In fact, Asians were very under-represented compared to the general SF population.

[bigdave01]

IDK, I really doubt that Americans will ever move to the city. In my opinion I just think we need to improve our suburbs. If ever do have kids I'll either move to some city neighborhood or a walkable suburb. A place like Davis or Alameda. Even somewhere like old Folsom or old Roseville. Just somewhere where the houses have character there is some diversity along with good schools and safety.

[NYSD1995]

No offense to anyone here but responses on this topic from people without children are really not going to be taken seriously by the people who do. When you have kids a lot of things change, often very quickly.

[edwardius]

Originally Posted by amy_kaden

[SIZE=3]I couldn’t agree with you more. We live in East Sacramento and are now leaving for Folsom. I love, love, love… this area. I want to jump off a bridge for having to leave it. I can live with the small two bedroom without a driveway and the lack of a garage. I can’t tolerate the mediocre schools. Yes we do have some descent elementary schools but once you go to middle school or high school you’re forced to go privet. We do not have the means for privet school and even if we did I refuse to send my children to a religious school. A friend was just forced to sign a “family values contract” stating they were opposed to homosexuality and gay marriage in order to enroll their child into one of these schools. I hope I can find some likeminded families in Folsom. I am so sad to leave.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Amy[/SIZE]

Originally Posted by amy_kaden

GreatSchools - Public and Private School Ratings, Reviews and Parent Community is where you can find information about school ratings and the racial makeup of the student body. I am also moving to Folsom in a few months the lack of diversity was our only concern about the area. Folsom is beautiful with good schools, racial divers it is not. This is a very white community as you will see from the schools statistics. I would recommend staying out of Rancho Cordova. I wish you the best of luck. Amy Lee

Amy Kaden two posts brings up the reason why I think diversity isn't working in this region. If the people who put a premium on having diverse schools aren't actually willing to send kids to the local schools that are diverse, then you aren't going to find high scoring diverse public schools.

The second issue is to consider what actually do people mean by diverse schools. Does that mean schools that are actually ethnically diverse or is that code for schools that are just full of wealthy white liberals?

Look at the demographics of the Davis schools that Big Dave refers to as diverse.

One high school is 86% white and the other is 61% white. Assuming the high schools are representive of the rest of the district, the district itself is still very white especially i a state where the majority of students are now hispanic.

2008 Base API School Report (CA Department of Education)

2008 Base API School Report (CA Department of Education)

If you look the neighborhoods that are walkable in this region, generally they are full of liberal white people. Midtown is 79% white, which is about twice as white as the rest of the city.

Do the people in these neighborhoods actually value diversity or just the ideal of diversity?

Or is this just more stuff white people like.

#7 Diversity « Stuff White People Like
#91 San Francisco « Stuff White People Like
#88 Having Gay Friends « Stuff White People Like

[wburg]

Originally Posted by angelbug

Trust me, once you have kids, your attitudes about many things change - attitudes you thought were so thoroughly ingrained that they never would.

I have friends who had a baby a couple months ago, and suddenly the ancient tiny car they swore they'd never part with has become a lot less romantic in their eyes as they consider its poor crash test ratings and lack of airbags and other safety features that never bothered them when it was just them riding in it.

I am not basing this on my own experience, I am basing it on the experience of my friends who DO have kids and DO raise them in the central city. And I already drive a station wagon with a five-star crash rating and airbags, I just don't have kids to put in it.

[CityGirl72]

In Seattle there is a couple - who had a baby same time I just had my second - and they live Urban and it works for them...their kids (twins) are about to be 2. I had my son in Midtown til 3. And the noise was a concern as drunken 24 year olds have no clue how NO SLEEP a single mom is getting. But that was about it.

Concerns arise when the kids hit school age - and not just for schools but because that's when all the "family things" start happening. Kids (babies, toddlers, preschoolers) are highly portable til school age hits - when then you life will revolve around their sports and playdats, parties, and school events. Talk about NO TIME for leisurely strolls down H st anymore!

Now those Seattle friends are loving the urban life - but are moving when school hits. How old are your friends kids? Under 5? Over 5? There's a big difference.

Plus you can't judge or generalize families becuase ONE family (that you know directly of) is doing it - MOST (ohhh the other 90%) of us are finding the suburbs for our kids is a smarter decision. I did contemplate East Sac - and if our income was more...we'd probably live there - but having so much space now - is WONDERFUL.

As I said I LOVE Midtown and I'm telling you - the MOMENT those kids leave my house...I'm selling it and moving there PRONTO.

[missionhome]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

No offense to anyone here but responses on this topic from people without children are really not going to be taken seriously by the people who do. When you have kids a lot of things change, often very quickly.

Exactly, things change VERY quickly. One minute it is all about "me me me" and suddenly you have this delicate little child in your hands and you start having to make sacrifices. There are many things I would like to have done or do now, but you don't because you love your kids so much. I guess one of the benefits of the suburbs is you are still close enough to go into the city when you have time. I always would go and still do (my kids are teens now) into Los Angeles or San Diego when I had time with my husband or a group of friends, arranging a babysitter and such, but it is something you realize you can only enjoy in limited quantities rather than 24/7 when you have a younger child.

[wburg]

CityGirl: Not ONE friend--multiple friends, whose kids vary between preschool and teenagers. As I have mentioned, there is a growing number of things for familes WITH KIDS to do downtown--from movies in the park to family restaurants to kid-oriented art classes. My friends with kids don't necessarily do as much of the "adult" stuff as they used to, they do more of the "family" stuff that happens here. But heck, at 40 I don't do as much of the "adult" stuff either.