Soon to be new to Sacramento (house, move to, light rail)

[wburg]

I'd beg to differ on that point. Midtown Sacramento isn't exactly the most bohemian spot on the planet, but it's definitely the most bohemian spot in northern California other than San Francisco and maybe Berkeley, but a lot more laid-back than either, with cheaper rent. You pretty much can't swing a dead cat in Midtown without knocking over someone's double latte (or their PBR tall-boy), hitting a tattooed hipster on a fixie in the back of the head, and getting a lecture from an animal-rights activist on why you shouldn't be swinging a dead cat.

A midtown-to-Rancho commute via light rail, and a one-mile bike ride, is pretty mild as commutes go. It definitely outweighs the hassle of trying to ride light rail to see shows or go to clubs and have to worry about catching the last train back, and the hassle of trying to find something entertaining to do in Rancho Cordova other than hanging out at the mini-mall.

Reading up a bit about Tucson, it sounds a lot like Sacramento: the two cities are pretty comparable in population, although Tucson is even more spread out. Central/Midtown Tucson even sounds a bit like midtown Sacramento/East Sac: historic homes, parks, bikeable, unique shops. I have a feeling that if this is what "localmusicfan" is looking for, he'd feel right at home in Midtown--and like a fish out of water living in Rancho Cordova.

[edwardius]

If you exclude the bay area in your definition of Northern California, outside of the Sacramento region what else do you now have left? Stockton? maybe Modesto? Sacramento wins these types of comparisons not because Sacramento offers so much of these types of activities, but because most of Northern California outside of the Bay Area and Sacramento is sparsely populated.

Even if you were to accept wburg's questionable premise that midtown is some sort of bohemian mecca in Northern California, we are still talking about an extraordinary tiny region. Midtown is basically from 15th street to 29th street (about 14 blocks) and from C street to W street (another 19 blocks). Remember most of that is housing with offices, grocery stores and drug stores.

The fact of the matter is that its tough to swing a dead cat in midtown without actually leaving midtown in the process. There is just not much there there. The fact that wburg is arguing that midtown is the one bohemian neighborhood in Sacramento is a symptom of the problem. There just isn't much of this type of activity in the region.

If this type of stuff is important to localmusicfan, does he really want to live in Sacramento? If this type of stuff isn't that important to him, why not just live in Rancho?

[wburg]

Well, if you want to get really technical about it, it isn't just Midtown, or the eastern half of the central city you mention (which is Midtown plus several surrounding neighborhoods.) It's also downtown (where places like the Crest and Temple Coffee and Naked Lounge are found) and Oak Park (where the Brickhouse Gallery and Bike Kitchen are) and Southside (where you find Old Ironsides and Beers Books) and Curtis Park (where you find Pangaea Cafe and Coffee Garden) and the Broadway corridor (where you find the Tower Theater, R5 Records, Records on Broadway, Javalounge, Los Jarritos...) and even East Sacramento has its hipstery hangouts. That's just off the top of my head, not an extensive survey.

So no, we're not just talking about the mere 266 city blocks you mention, even though that particular chunk has a rather large complement of cafes, live music venues, art galleries, boutiques, notorious house parties, dance clubs, theaters, and about a kerjillion tattoo/piercing studios. That's just ground zero.

There are interesting things throughout...even the residences. One feature of a lot of the central city neighborhoods is that they have porches, and people hang out on them, which tends to encourage a lot of random saying "hi" to people you know as you're walking around the neighborhood. And people do walk around, because things are relatively close to each other and the tree-lined streets make walking pleasant. And when someone starts having regular underground parties and secret basement shows and such, even a mundane house can become a hipster hangout...at least until the neighbors get too bothered and complain to the cops.

It sounds like you're pretty unfamiliar with what the central city has to offer, x15, or maybe you just don't get invited to those kind of parties and don't want anyone else to do so either.

Incidentally, I wasn't excluding the Bay Area as a whole--just specifically San Francisco and Berkeley/Oakland. Most of the Bay Area is not particularly hip or interesting, people who live there just consider themselves San Franciscans by proxy.

[edwardius]

Localmusicafan, what is the purpose of the move from Tuscon to Sacramento? What are your options other than working in Rancho Cordova?

In general if you were looking for some sort of bohemian music scene, I would probably look elsewhere in California first. Down in LA, you will much better options, there is stuff happening in North Hollywood, in Hollywood, in West Hollywood, in Silver Lake, in Echo Park, in Long Beach, in Venice, in Santa Monica in West LA and even West Adams. In San Diego and the Bay area again there are multiple areas with lots of people doing interesting things.

In Sacramento the region is much smaller and much more limited. You just have much fewer options. If my goal was to find some sort of Bohemian music scene Sacramento isn't a place I would seek out. The Sacramento music scene compares favorably with say Chico's music scene, but Chico is probably 1/10 the size of Sacramento.

That said, these other areas of the state might not be viable options for you to find work. If your only choice is Rancho Cordova, well then you will have to bloom where planted. But in California, I think you have much better options if you are able to consider them.

But if you are stuck working in Rancho Cordova, you could try living in Sac until you can move somewhere else.

[Damnitjanet]

X15, consider who you are debating. Wburg spent a lot of time trying to argue with me that midtown was the ideal place to raise family in the Sacramento region. Now he is arguing with you that midtown is the center of Sacramento's bohemian community. The guy is a tool.

Wburg is the Clift Claven of the forum. No matter the topic, he thinks midtown is the best solution even when he is clearly wrong. You can't win arguments with people like that. You just have to ignore them.

[wburg]

People, people, let's get some perspective here. Damnitjanet, I didn't try to tell anyone that midtown was the ideal place to raise a family, just that it was not impossible. I also think that buying a house in the suburbs based on schools when you don't even have kids yet is kind of silly, especially someone who likes Midtown and wants to live there but is concerned about life choices they might be making in ten years. Some people seem to think that raising a child in Midtown is just short of child abuse, but I think that's nonsense. It doesn't mean it's the perfect place for kids, just that it's an option for some, if not everyone.

Midtown Sacramento is the center of Sacramento's bohemian community, although Sacramento's bohemian community is not strictly limited to Midtown. Are you seriously suggesting that it is somewhere else? Midtown is not the most profoundly bohemian neighborhood anywhere in the country, not is it exclusively populated by bohemians, but then, I never said that it was. Obviously, we don't compare very well to cities ten times our size, or to the most established centers of culture and entertainment on the continent, but I don't think we should have to. For a city of half a million, we do just fine, and anyone who can't find entertaining things to do in Sacramento just plain isn't looking.

Nor do I think Midtown is the best neighborhood for everyone--quite the contrary, in fact, and I often recommend people look at neighborhoods outside the central city if that seems to suit their needs better. But if someone is looking for a comparatively urban, walkable neighborhood, with decent public transit, nearby entertainment options, or whatever happens to pass for a local music/art/nightclub scene, then yes, I'm going to plug midtown.

[Damnitjanet]

Anything you say Cliffy.

[wburg]

I'll just call you "Norm" then?

[edwardius]

Cliff Claven really is an apt description for the guy. He is complete tool, totally full of himself.

[Mr. Ozo]

x15, Rancho Cordova is not as cool as Midtown Sacramento. You really don't have much of grasp of Midtown/Downtown. I think Localmusicfan would have a much better time in Midtown, he's a single guy with no family, who wants to do stuff after work besides sit at home. I live in Midtown and commute to Lodi, because I don't want to live in Lodi. Rancho compared to that is nothing.

I mean, really what is there to do in Rancho Cordova?...the drive-in is very cool I'll give you that. There's like what? three crusty old bars, none with live music. There are strip-clubs, this much is true. In the central city I can be at 10 different live music venues on any given night within 10 minutes on my bike.