Japanese presense at all in Sacramento? Or good Asian presense? (Los Angeles: to rent, coop)
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There did seem to be kind of a lull in the local scene circa 1998 or 99, some long-standing venues and institutions like Cattle Club and Thursday Night Market shut down around then. Things perked up again around 2002-3 with new venues like the True Love Coffeehouse, Gallery Horse Cow and Fools Foundation, and Second Saturdays went from being sort of sedate to huge crowds of people milling through Midtown seeking art and free wine. But Sacramento has traditionally been a place that really requires a local guide to show you where things are happen--until very recently, when music & cultural events got a lot more public attention. A lot of clubs and venues were underground (in some cases literally) so you could drive right past them and not know people were doing weird stuff in the basement--it was like trying to find a speakeasy in the 1920s, especially since some of them were definitely not licensed/permitted venues, so drawing too much attention would get the place shut down.
Downtown Sacramento on a Saturday was a terrible day to visit--downtown Sacramento, due to its role as an employment center with very little housing, was busiest on weekdays during business hours, and on a very limited number of blocks at night; Midtown is a little busier, but doesn't seem like it would be because it mostly looks like a residential neighborhood. Immediately pre-pandemic, that was changing, and there were far more noticeable and prominent arts/music events, including some fairly hefty music festivals that drew a lot of public attention, and seemingly street gatherings or fairs somewhere multiple times a week. With things reopening, and nearly every restaurant moving their tables to sidewalk and street, that trend will no doubt continue post-pandemic in a big way. Secret's out about what we do here, and people are bored & seeking entertainment. If you do make it out here, check out R Street between 10th & 18th, K Street between roughly 20th & 24th. I think social media made a big difference; back in the 90s it was much harder for someone living in, say, Carmichael or Citrus Heights to find out about a show happening in Midtown (especially if it wasn't advertised in the local alt-weekly) so they might naturally assume nothing was happening in Sacramento, unless you knew which coffee shops or record stores to hit for band or event flyers that may or may not be weeks out of date (or calling numbers on rave flyers for directions!) And because a lot of events were in bars, teenagers like the title character couldn't get into the clubs (in fact, a couple of well known all-ages venues closed in around 2000.)
DJ genre was gothic/industrial and band was somewhere in between punk, industrial, and performance art, in both cases on the very amateur end of the spectrum. I still organize events and perform very very occasionally, but giving history talks or walking tours is more my speed these days, and technically when I DJ it's "oldies night" by default as most of what I play was released before the current crop of club kids were born.
Yeah, cities that are super lively and super safe basically don't exist in the United States, so it certainly isn't specific to Sacramento. In some respects we're a happy medium.
Thanks again shelato and wburg. Just when I thought I had all the info I needed, you both continue to provide additional great insights!
@shelato - Haha, yes that is correct, I'm def not Korean but LOOOVE Korean food. Plus, my ex-gf (who I almost married) was a native Korean girl so have visited Seoul and Daejon several times and also did a short consulting stint in Tokyo so love the city life of Asia. I only emphasized the Korean shops as from the older posts in this thread, didn't seem there were any other Asian enclaves outside of Land Park, Elk Grove and that section of downtown that wburg had mentioned. As a reminder, it could be ANY Asian ethnicity as that was one filter due to my concern of a potential military confrontation with China in the future and the possibility of that small 1% of population of ANY non-Asian neighborhood who may want to start trouble and take out their frustrations on the closest nearby person who fits that look. Similar to how Indian people were attacked right after 9/11 despite being completely different from Afghanistan, Saudi Arabian or Iraqi (or whoever you want to believe was the cause of 9/11 or WMD) While I admit that just typing that made me feel overly paranoid but the attacks in SF on elderly Asian ladies made me speculate that if it can happen to a once, very welcoming, inclusive, multi-cultural open minded city, then it can happen anywhere. In fact there was another recent stabbing just this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZP2OzBKk0 . What's sad is she's a widow who has lived in that neighborhood for 40 years and her husband being a veteran. I'm sure he'd be happy to see how the country he risked his life for could allow this situation to happen to his wife, RIP.
Now with all this being said, I don't want to be in a predominantly Asian neighborhood if all of them are gang members or idolize that lifestyle. And while I am Filipino, sadly I've found many locations with large Filipino populations undesireable (not the people but the surrounding areas such as Van Nuys in the Valley or Carson in the South Bay of LA County) So I seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place so do appreciate any new ideas so will check out the new streets you recommended. (although I laughed when I saw Jollibee as their food is pure crap IMO but I agree it is a data point and additional filter for where I can find my fellow brown brothers.) Also, please give it to me raw. Part of Stockton goes up into Florin which might be rough right? And based on this Sacramento gang maps, parts of it are in two different gang territories so definitely concerned about that. Screw my Filipino brothers if me and my boy have to be initiated into any gang just to live our normal lives. I'll pass.
There are different Asian neighborhoods in Sacramento For a long time there were hookers on Broadway and Stockton Blvd in Oak Park and that continued up and down Stockton Blvd until Elise. As Oak Park is gentrifying that is happening less along Broadway, but still happening Stockton Blvd south of Broadway. But that meant that rents were cheap in this area and that was why the Vietnamese/Chinese folks started opening all of these restaurants and Asian stores along Stockton Blvd. There are more middleclass/upper middle class Asian neighborhoods in places like Greenhaven and Elk Grove filled with government employees
Your budget for housing in Sacramento is a little tight. Housing prices are a function of both neighborhood quality and commuting distance from major employment centers. Downtown Sacramento is the largest employment center in the region and there are additional employment corridors along 50 and 80 especially near Roseville. But housing gets cheaper as you get further away from downtown for a neighborhood of similar quality.
There is cheap student housing near Consumnes River College, but that neighborhood is generally safe. So if you could find something there, I would be interested.
As for hate crimes targeted at Asians, I think some of this is about race, but some of the problem is that California has been emptying the jails because of Covid/Black Lives Matter Protests and I think that was especially true in places like San Francisco that are the most progressive. The number of homeless mentally ill people out on the streets right now is dramatically higher than any time I can think of. When these crazy people are attacking people of their own race, that isn't going to make the national news, but if they attack someone who is Asian that feeds the hate crime narrative.
But if you get out of California, and go to Texas, I have a feeling because they are more likely to enforce criminal laws and actually send criminals to jail, I think there is just a lot less random violence in general there. One of my friends just got back from Texas and the thing they commented the most about was how Texas didn't have anywhere near the same size of homeless problems that California has. Joe Rogan has said the same thing on his show after he moved from LA to Texas.
Hi guys! Just took a one day spur of the moment road trip up to Sacramento to finally survey the lay of the land. I’ll post my findings after I get catch up on sleep but all of your comments were very helpful so thanks again!
Hi wburg/shelato, hope you both had a nice weekend. Thanks again for all the great details. Had a chance to get a taste of Sacramento and here is my synopsis (this also helps me synthesize the thoughts that have been swirling around in my head)
First, almost every place was better than I expected. The reason I say that is after having lived in crazy expensive cities like SF and LA, I now have lower standards haha. For example, on Stockton st and some of the side streets, it looked a little rough with a few homeless encampments but then I would suddenly be reminded of say, Little Saigon in the Tenderloin SF where a 1 bedroom condo goes for $500k - $700k and houses for over a million: https://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Franci...9/home/1914627
If you're not familiar with the Tenderloin, there's rampant drug use there and not uncommon to see someone taking a crapper out in public. Dave Chappelle gives a nice description at 2:05 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhrtLidtfIw
Or for a SoCal reference, in the Westminster area/Garden Grove, while it isn't as rough as Stockton st or the Tenderloin, it's not Beverly Hills either and houses there go for almost a million? https://www.redfin.com/CA/Garden-Gro...4/home/3446176
@shelato - Although I made light of the fact that you mentioned Jollibee, I did decide to check out the Seafood City area and right across the street is one major gang area per this map: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Garden-Gro...4/home/3446176 But when I drove around there, it reminded me almost exactly of Milpitas where a normal old tract home goes for over a million. This guy right here goes for $1.3 million?? https://www.redfin.com/CA/Milpitas/1...35/home/570103
I also did have a chance to drive by the area near the airport on the way to Pocket and at first it looked okay? For a moment there I started thinking "ahhh ok, so maybe shelato is a little tiny bit overly conservative and this might be a good place" and a minute later I see some guy walking around with no shoes, no shirt sporting the plumber look with his butt crack hanging out haha. It's funny as I type this but yeah, I don't think I'd want my wife, kid or in-laws having to run into that guy. Actually this seemed to be a common thread seeing a bunch of transients with their shirts off which I don't want to be too critical of since in places like Hawaii, it's very normal but I also don't want to risk it either which actually leads to a point I wanted to bring to both of you as there was some slight disagreement as to what was considered a safe place to live or not earlier in this thread. I want to acknowledge both of your points of view as they're both valid. For example, I did drive down Franklin from 12th to Florin and it wasn't as bad as I thought (Stockton street looked worst to me) but every few blocks I'd see someone who looked like they were on meth or stoned. There's no way in hell I'd allow my wife and toddler to walk down that street BUUUT in my younger years, especially when I played music, probably would've felt very comfortable in that area and could imagine hanging with friends and maybe even laughing at the shirtless plumber as he strolled by. And my ex-gf at the time, as she was an artist and grew up in the US would also feel comfortable there too but for someone who grew up in another culture and country, wouldn't be as street smart and I also might recommend somewhere else to live for them.
Ok, moving along. As I had limited time, decided to just pass Land Park, all of downtown, as they were all out of my price range anyways so made way over to Rancho Cordova to see the world famous KP marketplace. Haha, it was funny as I just remember thinking "ohhh interesting, there's this random Korean marketplace but I don't see any Korean people here" except for maybe 1 or 2 workers. It'd be like if I decided to open up a Russian marketplace in Meadowview or Ranch 99 in Folsom. It's like ummm why? What was the thought process haha. I might've chosen the wrong day and time but on any Saturday afternoon in any Korean marketplace in SoCal, you'll find dozens of Korean ppl shopping there. Oh but I think I happened to see some a few babushkas that was mentioned earlier so that was kinda neat. So that's cool, random babushkas shopping at a Korean market in a pretty Caucasian area. Makes sense. This is Sacramento, cool!
@shelato - Good call on the tracks and homeless encampments. It's strange as the further up you go closer to the river, the neighborhood looks very nice and safe but the closer to the tracks, not so much and then go to the other side of the freeway and it's a little like East LA barrios.
Also, regarding those parks and the river, at first glance they are HUGE pluses and is putting Rancho Cordova in the #1 spot for me right now but I think I'll need to do more due diligence. Because for example, I went to Larchmont and while the park was nice, it was surprisingly a little dead at 4 in the afternoon and then I saw a few dudes started to congregate, which isn't bad by itself but per some Yelp review, a lady claimed that homeless people or "degenerate teens" would approach her and watch her kids play (wtf?) Not sure why Yelp censored it but hopefully this link will work: https://www.yelp.com/not_recommended...ark-sacramento
Then when I tried to make my way over to the river, one of the access points had what appeared to be somebody's camping gear. It wasn't a lot and looked clean so not sure if I would consider this a homeless encampment but also not a good feeling to know I'm gonna have to be walk by some homeless person's bedroom every time I want to bring my boy to the river. So yeah, long story short, the park and river look great but I need to find those right spots where there aren't any creepers or homeless people as then it sort of defeats the point, right? In comparison, there were a few houses in South Sac that were a block away from a park where I saw no homeless people: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Sacramento...home/112882524
@shelato - Thanks for the Power Inn Road tip! You were spot on that this seems to be the dividing line for the roughness of Stockton. Is it fair to say that whole area to the east of it is ok or is there some other gang area/problem I might be overlooking? For example, this one is pretty far east of Power Inn. Nothing special with no river or park but if it's safe, might be ok with it: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Sacramento.../home/19357881
Thanks for the history of Stockton street as I was wondering how this mix of cultures came to be as it was really random to have a ton of Vietnamese markets in the equivalent of South Central LA one?
@wburg - Oh man! That's sooo cool to hear you used to DJ industrial/goth! When I read that, I immediately remembered Front 242/Siouxsie/early NIN. Actually I didn't mention this earlier but my happiest memory of Sacramento was meeting and accidentally making Robert Smith of the Cure cry lol. Me and my friends had caught them at their San Jose show and a bunch of us crazy fans followed them to their hotel in SF where they were super nice in signing autographs. I happened to give a homeless person change in front of the guitarist, Perry Bamonte, who then offered us free tickets and backstage passes to their Sacramento show. We all had a chance to have a beer with the Cure and I happened to ask him if he still was friends with Siouxsie (as I'm sure you know he played with them for a short while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Do5pq1x2g) The other fans were asking them lame questions like "how did you write Mint Car" for their newer stuff and I was trying to get cred to show I was a long time fan by asking about the Faith album and would he write songs like that again so not sure if I brought up an intense period in his life so felt bad after.
Anyways, very cool and yeah, maybe if me and my gf at the time had caught your gigs, I might be calling Sacramento home now but it was just super dead the Saturday we went out.
@shelato @wberg - Thanks again to both of you. Not to get too personal on a public forum but both of you have given me a great impression of Sac as you both represent the different parts of my life. Growing up, music was my life and in my older years to pay the bills, got into the real estate industry which allowed me to travel abroad. Now working on a startup that coincidentally helps both.
Oh @shelato - almost forgot to acknowledge that area around Consumnes River College is really nice and also the area on Consumnes going towards the 5 has that nice new shopping area/theater but based on some reports, the area near that shopping area, Meadowview is also considered "ghettoview"? and if you do a search on Megans law, I was surprised to find almost as many sexual offenders around the college (sadly even near the elementary school) as there were around Stockton. (in fact, there were a lot in Rancho Cordova as well) So I think what I'm ultimately going to do is keep an eye out for that straggler of a house that is right on the edge of my budget, that is just far enough away from an offender and close enough to a park that doesn't have homeless or gangs. Whether that's in Rancho Cordova, South Sac, South of Land Park or maybe just go all the way up to Rocklin area as its more affordable the further you go from downtown. I work from home anyways and my kid won't be in school for several more years and then I'm moving anyways. Ok thanks again
Hi wburg/shelato, hope you both had a nice weekend. Thanks again for all the great details. Had a chance to get a taste of Sacramento and here is my synopsis (this also helps me synthesize the thoughts that have been swirling around in my head)
First, almost every place was better than I expected. The reason I say that is after having lived in crazy expensive cities like SF and LA, I now have lower standards haha. For example, on Stockton st and some of the side streets, it looked a little rough with a few homeless encampments but then I would suddenly be reminded of say, Little Saigon in the Tenderloin SF where a 1 bedroom condo goes for $500k - $700k and houses for over a million: https://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Franci...9/home/1914627
If you're not familiar with the Tenderloin, there's rampant drug use there and not uncommon to see someone taking a crapper out in public. Dave Chappelle gives a nice description at 2:05 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhrtLidtfIw
Or for a SoCal reference, in the Westminster area/Garden Grove, while it isn't as rough as Stockton st or the Tenderloin, it's not Beverly Hills either and houses there go for almost a million? https://www.redfin.com/CA/Garden-Gro...4/home/3446176
I went to school in Berkeley and I lived for a while in North Beach. So I have some knowledge of that part of the Bay Area. I also dated an adjunct professor at the UC Irvine Business School and we used to eat frequently in Little Saigon.
Sacramento is a lot cheaper than Coastal California, but it still is likely more expensive than Dallas and is probably in the past about in same general vicinity as the Inland Empire. I thought the quality of life was nicer here than the Inland Empire, but if you have family connections in Southern California, that could tip the balance in favor of the Inland Empire.
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Originally Posted by musicsaverdude
@shelato - Although I made light of the fact that you mentioned Jollibee, I did decide to check out the Seafood City area and right across the street is one major gang area per this map: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Garden-Gro...4/home/3446176 But when I drove around there, it reminded me almost exactly of Milpitas where a normal old tract home goes for over a million. This guy right here goes for $1.3 million?? https://www.redfin.com/CA/Milpitas/1...35/home/570103
I also did have a chance to drive by the area near the airport on the way to Pocket and at first it looked okay? For a moment there I started thinking "ahhh ok, so maybe shelato is a little tiny bit overly conservative and this might be a good place" and a minute later I see some guy walking around with no shoes, no shirt sporting the plumber look with his butt crack hanging out haha. It's funny as I type this but yeah, I don't think I'd want my wife, kid or in-laws having to run into that guy. Actually this seemed to be a common thread seeing a bunch of transients with their shirts off which I don't want to be too critical of since in places like Hawaii, it's very normal but I also don't want to risk it either which actually leads to a point I wanted to bring to both of you as there was some slight disagreement as to what was considered a safe place to live or not earlier in this thread. I want to acknowledge both of your points of view as they're both valid. For example, I did drive down Franklin from 12th to Florin and it wasn't as bad as I thought (Stockton street looked worst to me) but every few blocks I'd see someone who looked like they were on meth or stoned. There's no way in hell I'd allow my wife and toddler to walk down that street BUUUT in my younger years, especially when I played music, probably would've felt very comfortable in that area and could imagine hanging with friends and maybe even laughing at the shirtless plumber as he strolled by. And my ex-gf at the time, as she was an artist and grew up in the US would also feel comfortable there too but for someone who grew up in another culture and country, wouldn't be as street smart and I also might recommend somewhere else to live for them.
Stockton Blvd has hookers doing the stroll in Little Saigon after dark between Mack/Elise and Broadway in Oak Park. That said, if you are Asian and you are looking for Asian stores and restaurants, your best selection of that in this region is there. But I wasn't suggesting you live on that street, but look at places South of Consumnes Blvd, and or East of Power Inn Road.
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Originally Posted by musicsaverdude
Ok, moving along. As I had limited time, decided to just pass Land Park, all of downtown, as they were all out of my price range anyways so made way over to Rancho Cordova to see the world famous KP marketplace. Haha, it was funny as I just remember thinking "ohhh interesting, there's this random Korean marketplace but I don't see any Korean people here" except for maybe 1 or 2 workers. It'd be like if I decided to open up a Russian marketplace in Meadowview or Ranch 99 in Folsom. It's like ummm why? What was the thought process haha. I might've chosen the wrong day and time but on any Saturday afternoon in any Korean marketplace in SoCal, you'll find dozens of Korean ppl shopping there. Oh but I think I happened to see some a few babushkas that was mentioned earlier so that was kinda neat. So that's cool, random babushkas shopping at a Korean market in a pretty Caucasian area. Makes sense. This is Sacramento, cool!
@shelato - Good call on the tracks and homeless encampments. It's strange as the further up you go closer to the river, the neighborhood looks very nice and safe but the closer to the tracks, not so much and then go to the other side of the freeway and it's a little like East LA barrios.
Also, regarding those parks and the river, at first glance they are HUGE pluses and is putting Rancho Cordova in the #1 spot for me right now but I think I'll need to do more due diligence. Because for example, I went to Larchmont and while the park was nice, it was surprisingly a little dead at 4 in the afternoon and then I saw a few dudes started to congregate, which isn't bad by itself but per some Yelp review, a lady claimed that homeless people or "degenerate teens" would approach her and watch her kids play (wtf?) Not sure why Yelp censored it but hopefully this link will work: https://www.yelp.com/not_recommended...ark-sacramento
On real hot days, people will avoid the parks that don't have water features or pools during the peak of the heat, but the heat is usually mostly from about 1 pm to 6 pm. In the evenings after work people will return to the parks until dusk.
But the problem parks are usually pretty obvious. You might see a large homeless encampment or you have drug dealers in the park trying to sell you something. Also just look at front doors in the neighborhood. If the windows have bars in the windows and the front doors are re-enforced, that is a neighborhood, you probably don't want to live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsaverdude
Then when I tried to make my way over to the river, one of the access points had what appeared to be somebody's camping gear. It wasn't a lot and looked clean so not sure if I would consider this a homeless encampment but also not a good feeling to know I'm gonna have to be walk by some homeless person's bedroom every time I want to bring my boy to the river. So yeah, long story short, the park and river look great but I need to find those right spots where there aren't any creepers or homeless people as then it sort of defeats the point, right? In comparison, there were a few houses in South Sac that were a block away from a park where I saw no homeless people: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Sacramento...home/112882524
This is a nicer home, but its also more expensive than some of the other homes you were looking at. This is what 425K gets you in Rancho Cordova. Your options just get better when you increase your budget.
@shelato - Thanks for the Power Inn Road tip! You were spot on that this seems to be the dividing line for the roughness of Stockton. Is it fair to say that whole area to the east of it is ok or is there some other gang area/problem I might be overlooking? For example, this one is pretty far east of Power Inn. Nothing special with no river or park but if it's safe, might be ok with it: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Sacramento.../home/19357881
The neighborhood and schools get better the closer you get to Elk Grove and it gets rougher as you get north of Gerber. But the further East you go, it gets nicer and that can make up for going further North.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsaverdude
Thanks for the history of Stockton street as I was wondering how this mix of cultures came to be as it was really random to have a ton of Vietnamese markets in the equivalent of South Central LA one?
@shelato @wberg - Thanks again to both of you. Not to get too personal on a public forum but both of you have given me a great impression of Sac as you both represent the different parts of my life. Growing up, music was my life and in my older years to pay the bills, got into the real estate industry which allowed me to travel abroad. Now working on a startup that coincidentally helps both.
Oh @shelato - almost forgot to acknowledge that area around Consumnes River College is really nice and also the area on Consumnes going towards the 5 has that nice new shopping area/theater but based on some reports, the area near that shopping area, Meadowview is also considered "ghettoview"? and if you do a search on Megans law, I was surprised to find almost as many sexual offenders around the college (sadly even near the elementary school) as there were around Stockton. (in fact, there were a lot in Rancho Cordova as well) So I think what I'm ultimately going to do is keep an eye out for that straggler of a house that is right on the edge of my budget, that is just far enough away from an offender and close enough to a park that doesn't have homeless or gangs. Whether that's in Rancho Cordova, South Sac, South of Land Park or maybe just go all the way up to Rocklin area as its more affordable the further you go from downtown. I work frin om home anyways and my kid won't be in school for several more years and then I'm moving anyways. Ok thanks again
Most of Rocklin and Roseville is likely out of your budget, but Galt, Natomas, West Sac, Citrus Heights, Arden Arcade and possibly Lincoln might work as well.
But you may do better by narrowing your options here, rather than broadening them. I think I would also take a trip out to Dallas and get a better sense of how that compares with what you saw in Sac. I think that there is a really good chance that Dallas is cheaper than Sac and that might allow you to live in a neighborhood that is as safe or safer than what you were looking at here, but leave you with more money to invest in your start up.
@shelato - Thanks for the additional details and thoughts! I've gone ahead and adjusted my filters based on your criteria and am seriously considering upping the budget to have more options. I also used your earlier link https://sac-epidemiology.maps.arcgis...f834079f618dad and was surprised to see parts of Rancho Cordova and even Folsom not looking so good but yet the southern part of Meadowview look really good! (95832) but yet on this gang map https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...1.4830657&z=13 , it's exactly in the heart of one gang area so not sure if this might be an area that's gentrifying or what's the cause of this discrepancy as that's like saying Compton is safer than Burbank (based on that map at least) I also think I've lived in SoCal for so long as I've forgotten about Asian gangs as they aren't as well known here as other gangs but having done more research, I found out about the Good Guys shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_S...hostage_crisis and am also trying to see where the other Asian gang influences are.
Regarding Dallas, it's still def on my list but the ability to make weekly trips to Silicon Valley is making me consider Sac more seriously. You probably know this already as an investor but most VCs want to do deals in their backyard and areas they're very familiar with. So while it's not as good as being in SF, Sac is still within proximity vs Dallas. While the VC model has been adopted worldwide, the Valley is still where the major players are and who are innovating in the space. On a diff note, I'm worried about how inflation and how a stock market crash could impact the economy and the fact that Sacramento is basically the government, that seems to be the most stable economic support to weather any systemic issues. Tons of mortgage and rent deferrals will soon be ending soon so there's going to be a some market corrections I think in the coming year.
@wburg - I was going through the thread to compile notes when I just realized you said you were still performing? That's super cool! If I do decide to make the move, I'd love to come support your "oldies" night haha as to me, that means good music night! While I know that may sound like an old man criticizing the youth, I'd argue that the corporatization of radio and the high costs of urban centers making it near impossible for alt newspapers and clubs to survive (a record store with thin margins has no way to compete against a VC backed startup) has dumbed down the youth due to lack of exposure to new forms of art/music. This is partially the reason I feel passionate about my startup as I want my kid's kids to have access to music that frankly saved me during my teenage years from the negative surroundings. And while you obviously have the internet, one has to go out of their way to discover new artists, the main benefactors of apps like Spotify, Youtube and Soundcloud are advertisers as opposed to the artists themselves. But anyways, sorry old man ranting over.
In earlier posts, I commented on how fun and safe it is in Japan and Korea but I have some friends who recently recorded a folk/punk album in the poor side of Croatia in this city called Riva and also played a show at the local metal bar. My buddy who grew up in East LA and spent half his life in the Mission District of SF described Riva as Union Square (main shopping district in SF) or a Santa Monica mixed with Fishermans Wharf as it's right by the ocean: https://riva-city-center.business.site/?m=true
He said it is completely safe to walk around at almost all hours of the night, you can drink in public, and you have dozens of large groups of attractive females, dressed up in heels walking around and a nice apt will cost you $500. So I guess I bring this up because part of the reason I'm being overly nit-picky about safety is having grown up and spending most of my life in CA, I always believed this was the way life is but only after being exposed to many places in the world in Asia and now my friends in the EU, makes me feel sad and curious why CA has become the way it is. We could never have drinking in public in CA. We could never walk around at 2 in the morning without keeping a watchful eye, much less women dressed up in heels in CA. We could never have an affordable place to live that doesn't have gangs or other shady type of activity. Like I want it all. I want nightlife, art, music, cool **** to do, safety, good schools, ability to walk around, etc. Ok, sorry, I'm totally ranting now hahaha. Anyways, thanks for reading and I will def keep downtown in mind for things to do if I do move up there. FYI - Open streets is actually a trend now as Paris, London, NY also doing it although it's very normal in EU and Asia already. It's just that the car manufacturers and real estate developers indoctrinated the US to incorporate an unhealthy lifestyle to support their business models for decades: https://www.dezeen.com/2020/05/07/lo...s-pedestrians/
@musicsaverdude: Before COVID I DJ'd or performed about 1-2 times a year, and help organize a very small and obscure music festival; we'll see what happens in the coming years. As with your example, it's more part of my past than my future, but still something I care about. These days I mostly give talks about local history, which isn't that different than playing music--I get up on stage, do my act, people applaud, then I sell merch! Plus a lot of my talks are about the nightlife and music scenes of past eras, so there's a sort of common ground there. In fact, I just had a nice phone conversation with an old resident of Japantown who had worked as a music booker at McClellan Air Force Base's enlisted men's club in the 1950s, bringing acts like Martha and the Vandelas or Ike & Tina Turner (when they were still little known enough to consider an Air Force enlisted men's club a good gig) to Sacramento! She had a lot of great stories like that to share, and I'm fortunate enough to have learned a few and passed them along at my own more recent gigs.
Not sure about other scenes so much, but at least in the goth/industrial scene, and to some extent the punk scene, there's a lot of intergenerational communication: rather than being dumbed down, growing up with everything ever recorded at their fingertips means they're more versed in obscure music than older generations were in the era when you had to go to other cities and scour record bins to find weird stuff. So the clubs tended to be a comfortable mix of people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, and while sometimes oldsters might complain about how "the kids these days" they seem to all get along, and I have been pretty inspired by some young kids who are genuinely interested in what it was like to go to clubs in the 80s and 90s, love the music, and are putting their own spin on the genre.
Regarding Croatia: you might look into some of their recent history, the 1990s gave the world the term "ethnic cleansing" (an euphemism for genocide) based on war crimes that happened in the former Yugoslavia. Things have settled down now since the wars there in the 1990s, but there's often a dark side to bright places we don't always see. Also, totally unrelated, but Sacramento had a lot of immigrants from Croatia a century or so ago, generally known as "Slavonians" to old-timers whether or not they were specifically from Slavonia, who mostly lived in the old West End near Japantown. A few of those characters made their way into the stories I tell, as some of them led very interesting lives (or, in a couple cases, had tragic but fascinating deaths.) One of them ran a boardinghouse for Filipino farm workers, including a dance club, in the 1930s!
Regarding open streets: not sure if you got a look at R Street, Capitol Avenue, K Street, or any of the other closed-off streets in Midtown filled with tables & restaurants, but there's already talk about retaining some aspects of the expanded street/sidewalk dining, which Sacramento had already largely embraced, but to an even greater extent.
Los Angeles County [CA] 51,713
Orange County [CA] 15,190
Santa Clara County [CA] 13,632
San Diego County [CA] 12,618
San Francisco County [CA] 6,790
Alameda County [CA] 6,476
San Mateo County [CA] 5,771
Sacramento County [CA] 3,727
Contra Costa County [CA] 2,964
@shelato - Thanks for the additional details and thoughts! I've gone ahead and adjusted my filters based on your criteria and am seriously considering upping the budget to have more options. I also used your earlier link https://sac-epidemiology.maps.arcgis...f834079f618dad and was surprised to see parts of Rancho Cordova and even Folsom not looking so good but yet the southern part of Meadowview look really good! (95832) but yet on this gang map https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...1.4830657&z=13 , it's exactly in the heart of one gang area so not sure if this might be an area that's gentrifying or what's the cause of this discrepancy as that's like saying Compton is safer than Burbank (based on that map at least) I also think I've lived in SoCal for so long as I've forgotten about Asian gangs as they aren't as well known here as other gangs but having done more research, I found out about the Good Guys shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_S...hostage_crisis and am also trying to see where the other Asian gang influences are.
Consumnes River College, Valley High School, Strawberry Creek and some of the Student Apartments/ Consumnes River College student housing in that area function as a border that contains the chaos in Meadowview from North Laguna. As you go further South, you get closer to Laguna and Laguna West which is much nicer. These are neighborhoods with state employees and supervisors in state agencies and are nice, but is also fairly close to all of the Asian stores off Stockton Blvd, so these area tend to have a much higher density of Asian state employees.
Consumnes River Blvd once you get west of Franklin, I would skip. There isn't a real solid boundary from the rest of the chaos in Meadowview and while the Delta shores is a nice new development, anything west of Franklin on Consumnes River Blvd, north of Morrison Creek, I might rent, but I wouldn't buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsaverdude
Regarding Dallas, it's still def on my list but the ability to make weekly trips to Silicon Valley is making me consider Sac more seriously. You probably know this already as an investor but most VCs want to do deals in their backyard and areas they're very familiar with. So while it's not as good as being in SF, Sac is still within proximity vs Dallas. While the VC model has been adopted worldwide, the Valley is still where the major players are and who are innovating in the space. On a diff note, I'm worried about how inflation and how a stock market crash could impact the economy and the fact that Sacramento is basically the government, that seems to be the most stable economic support to weather any systemic issues. Tons of mortgage and rent deferrals will soon be ending soon so there's going to be a some market corrections I think in the coming year.
Housing booms are experienced differently in different areas. In Texas, it is easy to build and to get permission to build, so when interest rates are cheap, housing booms are experienced much more as building booms which are then followed by construction busts. Versus in Coastal California housing booms are experienced more as price spikes and price crashes. In the past, Sacramento functioned more like Texas, it was easy to get buildings approved and it was easy to build so that was one of the reasons Sac and inland California stayed much cheaper than Coastal California. But the State of California as part of its anti global warming efforts got a lot more involved in land use planning, including efforts to reduce sprawl and redirect growth inward and upward towards infill versus sprawl. In terms of stopping global warming that likely is a good idea.
But it shifted the nature of the housing market functions. As the State of California adopted statewide land use regulations, that used to be used only in Coastal California, it got a lot more difficult to build locally. the region isn't building housing in this housing boom like it did during the housing boom in the early 2000's instead housing prices are spiking and I think will later revert back towards the mean.
The second thing to remember is that State of California unlike the Federal Government is required to balance its budget. During boom times, the State has lots of money coming in either from higher property taxes, higher income taxes or even from large capital gains taxes off of stock sold during various IPOs and when that occurs the state budget is flush and it is hiring lots of people.
During these boom periods, housing gets so expensive that people in Coastal California can't afford to buy in Coastal California and so a lot of them move inland to places like Sacramento and that is the other reason for housing spike. Additionally if their kids and grandkids are in Sacramento, some retired people move here with lots of equity from their coastal California homes, all of which spikes housing prices locally.
But during recessions, State tax receipts plummet. Sales taxes are down, property taxes receipts are down because property isn't moving. State income taxes and state Capital gains taxes are down, at the same time the need for a lot of government services go up. People who don't have jobs go back to school to get retrained. the need for government assistance goes up. So the State has these recurrent "budget crisis's" with furloughs or mandatory state imposed 10% salary cuts, things like that. At the same time people in Coastal California who before couldn't afford to live their, aren't priced out during recessions, so that housing demand goes away. These are the times when Sacramento housing prices either fall or stall out and fail to keep up with inflation and revert back to the mean that way.
But the point I want to make is just because their is a recession, don't assume that it won't be felt here because we are a government town.
The advantage that some place like Dallas has over Sacramento is that its really easy to get land rezoned there which keeps land costs low and housing tends to sell pretty much at or near the cost of new construction, so its really cheap.
Lastly, as a real estate investor I made money mostly off of leverage, but with a successful IPO, you are going to make a lot more money off of that IPO than I am going to make off of leverage. Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk made their fortunes not in real estate but off of IPOs. I am never going to make that kind of money. If your IPO is successful each extra 10000 or 100000 you spend more on a house right now might mean an extra million or more later in future IPO money that you have given up.
@wburg - Wow! Ike and Tina Turner? And a dance club for Filipino farm workers? You're making Sacramento sound cooler and cooler! I'd definitely take your tour! And that is an interesting dynamic regarding performing and then selling merch haha. Totally agree that it is a performance, taking the audience on an adventure with beginning, middle, climax and end (sorry can't remember the exact storyline arc) so whether you're playing in a band, Dj'ing or giving a tour, can totally see how they're similar as you're expressing your energy. Regarding my "dumbed down" comment, apologies for the negativity. I should've been more specific and given context regarding that statement. It wasn't directed at anybody specifically but rather the systems currently in place that support mainstream culture. Please remember I'm working on a startup that strives to help artists so it's natural for me to be a bit emotional and passionate about it. If you look at the business model of being an artist, it is very difficult and not sustainable in 99% of cases either due to the gatekeeper dynamic and/or technology commoditizing the artist. (ex. Amazon commoditizing the author, Spotify/Apple commoditizing the musician, etc) If you and me started coding when we were 15 years old, chances are we would both be millionaires by now. But as we pursued creative endeavors, had to pivot to new careers to earn a living. While you did start a festival and are also doing great tours, it's not the same as actually creating your own original work. On a related note, you mentioned that kids like asking about the 80s and 90s. While it's obviously cool, you have to wonder why? Is it because they don't have any musical movement to call their own? Have you noticed there haven't been any revolutionary music scenes/movements in awhile. From blues to rock n roll, R&B, to metal, punk, post punk, reggae, disco, post punk, hip-hop, house, techno, grunge, trip-hop, then suddenly nothing! (well I guess you could count dubstep) but for almost two decades there hasn't been anything new. It's all been a rehash of old genres, which again while it's cool, isn't that strange that you had non-stop pushing the boundaries for decades and then all of a sudden, a grinding halt? Using punk and hip hop as examples or obviously the Summer of Love, there was a lot of social commentary in the music that inspired society whereas nowadays, it's all about drugs, gangs and girls. So this is what I meant about "dumbing down". Not so much that the kids are dumb but that the powers that be are attempting to do this and it all started when Clear Channel bought many of the independent radio states a few decades ago. They control culture. I'm sure you remember 120 minutes on MTV. Whatever genre you were into, MTV was actually about the music vs whatever fast food crap programming they have now (sorry the teenager in me coming out haha)
@Dave Coe - Thanks for sharing those stats. What's interesting is years back, I actively tried to network with the Japanese population as my previous company worked on programs for their expats. But even in the heart of Torrance, when Toyota was still there, I barely saw any large groups of them. Even during the annual Cherry Blossom festival in Little Tokyo, very few Nihonjin. A Japanese girl I dated back then told me that in her opinion, most Japanese are already well off with a better standard of living in Japan so you won't find the large numbers of immigrants compared to other countries and if there are, they would be "hidden" and assimilated into the culture. Which sucks because at the time, I dug Japanese girls and was curious where they were ha! But I digress. It's only really Hawaii that I've ever felt like there was truly tons of Nihonjin roaming around in large numbers.
@shelato - As always, thanks again for the detailed demographic/geography intel. In the spirit of reciprocity, I feel I owe you (and wburg) a partial agent fee for your help haha. Again, much appreciated. Before I forget, I still remember you mentioning Hmong gangs? Is this prevalent in the Meadowview and/or Filipino areas you had mentioned earlier?
Regarding your excellent explanation of the housing dynamics of Sacramento vs coastal, curious if you feel Biden's American Rescue Plan will have a different impact on a potential recession vs previous ones? It's where they're providing $350 BILLION to over 19,000 cities across the US to help with post Covid relief. Here's a FAQ from the Treasury: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/SLFRPFAQ.pdf and a great video on approved uses: [vimeo]560619496[/vimeo] https://vimeo.com/560619496
Without getting to detailed, my simplistic thinking is this is a big money grab and whether or not these funds end up spurring post COVID relief, it will at least allow the public sector to keep the economy going even if inflation hits with a massive stock market crash. Based on some presentations I've seen over the past year, we're due for another correction as there seems to be one every decade (dot-com boom late 90s, subprime crisis 2007/2008, etc). So the thought has even occurred to me to just sell now and wait on the sidelines but as real estate speculation is not my main revenue generator, figure forget timing the market and just get a stable home base to work on core competency. But am curious if you think prices will come down substantially later this year?
Lastly, regarding IPO, yes that is the way it's usually done. Develop an MVP (minimum viable product), get users to validate it, get your seed/Series A to scale out to a few markets, refine it further, Series B, wash, rinse, repeat all while increasing the multiple to sell it to the next sucker (either IPO or M&A). Sadly, I'm taking the much harder route as I'm focusing on something more sustainable that does't cede control to VCs as it's near and dear to my heart, helping artists. And sadly, when you get involved with venture capital, as you mentioned, they want those home runs, waaaaay more IRR% than what even the most speculative RE developers want as that's the VC business model. Lose out on 99% of their bets but the unicorn pays for all the other losers. It's almost exactly the same as the record industry. But it's not sustainable so I'm more focused in the impact investing space where there's double and triple bottom line returns expected with market rate returns being acceptable. For example, in this space, an impact investor may be okay with a lower return so long as there are say, 1000 kids who got jobs or were fed, or pick whatever socially disadvantaged group/demographic/gender/etc and be able to measure how you help x number of them all while reducing carbon and/or any other environmental metric. The UN SDGs (sustainable development goals) give a good reference: https://sdgs.un.org/goals. But as this is a new space and many of the players are former Wall St investment bankers, there's a lot of greenwashing so it's almost better to go with a typical VC because at least you know what the expectations are. MONEY. Vs an impact investor where the pool is much smaller and you still need to know the right person to make the right introduction. Sorry, sorry for TMI but this has been a frustrating recent realization because had I just been a pure capitalist the last year, probably would've made more headway vs focusing on impact space but I do believe in the concept of social entrepreneurship being the future of the world. It's taking the best of capitalism and philanthropy and merging them. Anyways..
Oh! One more question please if anybody has an opinion?
Oak Park - Where is the dividing line of safety? @shelato - I think you mentioned near Broadway was better vs 12th?
Rancho Cordova - There seem to be a lot of homes right at the top end of my price range near the river but based on some OLDER Reddit threads, Rancho had a bad rep (with exception of Anatolia) and I'm curious why? I get why Folsom St by the tracks seems sketch but did some other major thing happen in the past because frankly, they all sort of blend together? I know that's not the case but Rosemont, Rancho, Folsom, Roseville, Rocklin, they're all suburbs to me so unless there was some sort of mass murder or crazy environment/fire hazard, it seems cool to me?
Ok all, hope you have a safe and happy 4th of July weekend all! Domo arigato gozaimasu!
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