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View Poll Results: If You Live or Have Lived in Sacramento and Hate It, Where Would You Rather Live?
Pittsburgh, PA 0 0%
Sacramento, CA 10 100.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-07-2010, 10:37 PM
 
436 posts, read 946,777 times
Reputation: 202

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Do you hate Sacramento relative to California or relative to everything else in the United States?

Do you hate Sacramento so much that you'd rather live in a Midwestern, cold, snowy, rust-belt city? Specifically, would you rather live in Sacramento or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania?

Pittsburgh is a pleasant town with great universities, decent charm and abundant culture. It has major league sports and a respectable skyline. It has its own style and feel. Qualities aside, it sits in a major river valley where it gets very little sunlight, and it gets 40 inches of snow, annually.

Don't retort with the viscerally satisfying, but logically unsupportable "anywhere has to be better than here." I'm trying to learn whether you hate Sacramento so much that you'll turn your back on California, entirely.

Thanks, everyone.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,109,333 times
Reputation: 7373
Since you have claimed in the past to have moved from Indianapolis to Florida, why would you be interested in a Pittsburgh comparison? How do you view Pittsburgh as different from Indianapolis as your baseline comparison city?
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:59 PM
 
436 posts, read 946,777 times
Reputation: 202
Default To Answer Your Question, NewtoCA,

I needed to compare Sacto to a city of which people on the West Coast would have some knowledge. This requirement removed all the sub 2-million metro areas from the sample. I also needed the city to be in a depressed and dreary part of the country to measure the depth of displeasure with Sacto. This latter requirement ruled out the Sun Belt, the Pacific Northwest and New England, as these areas have significant appeal. The alternative locality needed to be in an area of the country that was shedding population, so the Midwest was the natural region from which to draw the sample.

Initially, I was going to juxtapose Sacramento to the most hopeless and decaying city in North America, Cleveland, but since that choice would be so glaring, and the decision so reflexive and inescapable, it wouldn't evidence true deliberation by the voters. Given the brutal weather, the collapsed economy, the dilapidated neighborhoods, and the unchecked crime, Cleveland made the question a bit too easy. The alternative city couldn't be a functioning, progressing, world-class destination city such as Chicago, as people daily choose to move to Chicago form all regions of the world.

Needing an honest opinion, I decided to travel a bit further East, to a functioning and productive, though challenged, city that retains much of its intellectual and economic vitality, yet still Midwestern, so suffering under months of bleak weather. Where Cleveland has almost nothing going for it, Pittsburgh has many attractive qualities and would measure the particular depth of displeasure with Sacto I was seeking to isolate. After due deliberation, and a bit of supposition, I posited Pittsburgh as the alternative choice.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,109,333 times
Reputation: 7373
Now see, if you had responded like this to my initial request, we could have skipped this other nonsense.

Not too difficult, now you added context.

I'll merge this with the thread, and reopen it.


BTW, lived in metro Cleveland for a few years awhile ago and absolutely loved the area. Of all the metro areas we have resided, metro Cleveland clearly is our favorite.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:29 AM
 
436 posts, read 946,777 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Now see, if you had responded like this to my initial request, we could have skipped this other nonsense.

Not too difficult, now you added context.

I'll merge this with the thread, and reopen it.


BTW, lived in metro Cleveland for a few years awhile ago and absolutely loved the area. Of all the metro areas we have resided, metro Cleveland clearly is our favorite.
You needn't have said further. My recent response was unneeded and irrelevant. I provided it to remind you that it is good manners to presume a rational actor.

I've discussed your insistence with a few fellow scholars in Logic who observed the same fallacies I noted. As an academic matter, your position is untenable. You were curious, but curiosity does not prove logical necessity, nor does curiosity prove syntactical incompleteness.

You got your way through ad baculum, not through compelling polemics.

Glad you enjoyed Cleveland. I minimize my time there.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:58 AM
 
4,025 posts, read 3,257,184 times
Reputation: 6355
For work, I had to go to a conference in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is actually a very cool city. You have the rivers converging in downtown. The city is surrounded by low level hills, so lots of homes have a view. Its also really green. Most neighborhoods have lots of trees.

I spent some time at Carnegie Mellon University and walking around in Shadyside. I liked that neighborhood a lot. I can't find a link to the pictures of the neighborhood, but I liked it a lot.

I also thought the Mexican War Streets were also really cool.

MexicanWarStreets.org

Mexican War Streets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Pittsburgh I also rode the Dusquesne Incline and the view was remarkable.


YouTube - Dusquesne Incline - Pittsburgh PA

Housing was dirt cheap in Pittsburgh. The people were the salt of the earth. I really loved Pittsburgh. Would I have any problem moving to Pittsburgh? Not at all. I really loved Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is one of those towns that when you leave Sacramento you can afford to buy a bigger home in a better neighborhood for less money than you spent here. The people who make fun of it mostly haven't spent time in Pittsburgh.

I haven't spent a tremendous amount of time in the mid-west, but I also really liked Chicago. I remember I went to Chicago right after being in New York. Even though a lot of the buildings probably were taller in Manhattan than in Chicago because the tall buildings were spread out, the buildings in Chicago just seemed much taller. Chicago also had some really great neighborhoods. I loved Oak Park, I loved Lincoln Park. I liked Evanston and Elmhurst. Chicago was also surprisingly affordable. Even though Chicago was a major city like NYC and SF it was priced like Sacramento. So if you could afford a house in Sacramento, you could probably afford a comparably nice home in Chicago.

The only thing I disagree about is your premise. I don't think you have to hate Sacramento to actually admire cities in the midwest. The cities in the midwest have enough intrinsic appeal that you can admire them with out necessarily hating Sacramento.

I like Sacramento, but I would have no problem living in either Chicago or Pittsburgh. I have heard good things about Cincinnati too, but I haven't been there yet myself.

The midwest is different than Sacramento. The seasons are more pronounced. The winters are more intense, summers are more humid. They have fireflies in the summertime, but I thought the cities of the midwest were nice places to live.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,312,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato View Post
I don't think you have to hate Sacramento to actually admire cities in the midwest. The cities in the midwest have enough intrinsic appeal that you can admire them with out necessarily hating Sacramento.

I like Sacramento, but I would have no problem living in either Chicago or Pittsburgh. I have heard good things about Cincinnati too, but I haven't been there yet myself.

The midwest is different than Sacramento. The seasons are more pronounced. The winters are more intense, summers are more humid. They have fireflies in the summertime, but I thought the cities of the midwest were nice places to live.
Absolutely! Actually, there's a bit of a midwest flavor to Sacramento no matter how hard it tries to distinguish itself as a west coast city and a California city above all. Like many of the midwestern cities it was founded based upon trade, water routes, railroads and hard work.

We didn't move to Missouri, which is a combines the midwest and the south, because we disliked Sacramento as much as we did for a change of pace (slower), a lower cost of living and a different lifestyle. We also wanted four distinct seasons, none of them particularly harsh.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Celebration wannabe...
1,000 posts, read 3,332,009 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
You needn't have said further. My recent response was unneeded and irrelevant. I provided it to remind you that it is good manners to presume a rational actor.

I've discussed your insistence with a few fellow scholars in Logic who observed the same fallacies I noted. As an academic matter, your position is untenable. You were curious, but curiosity does not prove logical necessity, nor does curiosity prove syntactical incompleteness.

You got your way through ad baculum, not through compelling polemics.

Glad you enjoyed Cleveland. I minimize my time there.
Wow, I'm going back under my stupid rock with Patrick Star now...

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