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They can grow eggplants in New York year-round? Tell me how they manage that, since the week of low-20s temperatures we had in December froze mine to the ground. I'm not arguing facts. I'm arguing that you claim Sacramento doesn't have a winter. If we didn't have a winter here tropical plants, such as eggplant, would thrive year-round. They are grown as annuals here. Additionally, nectarines, peaches, walnuts, and many other fruits require quite a few accumulative hours in the upper 30's to low 40's (colder actually doesn't help). Look, it certainly isn't as cold here as it is in the Midwest. You are arguing relativity. It is the same thing as someone from Juneau arguing that Chicago doesn't have a winter because Chicago receives less than half the snowfall Juneau receives.
Of course "winter" and ones' expectation is somewhat subjective. Seasons that you could see and feel coming. I grew up in Eastern Washington, with 4 definite seasons, and 4 seasons is the benchmark that I compared Sacramento to in the thread. The seasons in that area (and other traditional 4 season areas) were all marked by definite changes in vegitation and surrounding habitat, hours of sunlight, and weather.
Here in Sacramento I don't really feel as though we have those definite indicators of seasonal change. One season bleeds into another, and it feels as though there are really two distinct seasons; summer, and winter. Winter being the shorter and less distinct of the two. If you didn't have a Calender, you'd be hard pressed to know what season Sacramento was in at times.
Of course this is somewhat subjective . . . . I guess the thread is not perfect, but it's not intended to be. It was just intended to give people a general idea of what to expect here.
See, where I'm having problems with it isn't so much the freezing temperatures, but the changes. Changes in lighting are a function of latitude. We are at the same latitude as Denver and Washinton DC. Changes in vegetation, well, I really don't know how people miss the fall colour in Sacramento. It is about a month later than other parts of the country, but it is there and it is distinct. Winter here is chilly, grey and foggy. Spring here involves a fair amount of rain in a short time. But, whatever! I've had people from other parts of the country tell me California doesn't have much of anything of significance, like history (I guess the CPRR and the Gold Rush aren't historically significant), culture (oddly, the rest of the country makes a fad out of what we do here), or much of anything else. I also amused by the people on City Data who are authorities on anything Californiana because they took a trip from Seattle to San Diego and traveled the entire length of California. Even so, there are more authorities on California who haven't bothered to travel outside their time zone.
Thank you! You summed up my points much better than I apparently did, and you're right on cue with what I intended to say.
Maybe it I should not have titled this thread "objective view" but rather "the next closest thing to an objective view". The "winter" references I made are meant to be contrasted against the traditional 4 season climate (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter) . . . . .
I really did not intend to create a war over what is "objective" and what is "subjective". If some of the points do not appear to be objective, it's definitely not intentional.
I got what you meant. I found it a good and solid post. Thanks for the info.
Sacto's Winter is not really a Winter. Come to Milwaukee if you want to feel a good, long Winter.
See, where I'm having problems with it isn't so much the freezing temperatures, but the changes. Changes in lighting are a function of latitude. We are at the same latitude as Denver and Washinton DC. Changes in vegetation, well, I really don't know how people miss the fall colour in Sacramento. It is about a month later than other parts of the country, but it is there and it is distinct. Winter here is chilly, grey and foggy. Spring here involves a fair amount of rain in a short time. But, whatever! I've had people from other parts of the country tell me California doesn't have much of anything of significance, like history (I guess the CPRR and the Gold Rush aren't historically significant), culture (oddly, the rest of the country makes a fad out of what we do here), or much of anything else. I also amused by the people on City Data who are authorities on anything Californiana because they took a trip from Seattle to San Diego and traveled the entire length of California. Even so, there are more authorities on California who haven't bothered to travel outside their time zone.
Yeah, I understand that. I'm not one of those guys lol. I lived in the north bay for about 20 years prior to coming here. A lot of ones' interpretation about a place probably does come down to where they are from originally or have lived in the past, but I tried to use the traditional 4 season type area as a bench mark.
I've actually really enjoyed the weather as of late. I'm not sure if summer has officially started but June has been a warm, comfortable month. Sacramento is a good place for a lot of reasons, but I don't believe it is for someone that wants to experience definite seasonal change or is expecting that.
For example, I knew a guy that moved to Washington DC and was complaining to me that "what in the hell is wrong with this place, it was 80 degrees yesterday in december!" For some people, the seasonal change is really an issue. They like to see and feel the change.
I get what you are saying with the trees, leaves, etc., but I think the change is more pronounced in somewhere such as, say, Montana, where you'll see the snow start to melt and fade, different vegetation will begin to sprout and grow, etc. It's really a definite signal the Winter is completely over and spring is here, so start getting ready for Summer!
Here, winter kind of just mysteriously blended into April, May, and now, I guess we are in summer. Doesn't feel all that drastically different than spring did or even winter, for that matter. We had some rain this winter, but all in all, the temps were still fairly warm. That is my subjective view
Yeah, I understand that. I'm not one of those guys lol. I lived in the north bay for about 20 years prior to coming here. A lot of ones' interpretation about a place probably does come down to where they are from originally or have lived in the past, but I tried to use the traditional 4 season type area as a bench mark.
I've actually really enjoyed the weather as of late. I'm not sure if summer has officially started but June has been a warm, comfortable month. Sacramento is a good place for a lot of reasons, but I don't believe it is for someone that wants to experience definite seasonal change or is expecting that.
For example, I knew a guy that moved to Washington DC and was complaining to me that "what in the hell is wrong with this place, it was 80 degrees yesterday in december!" For some people, the seasonal change is really an issue. They like to see and feel the change.
I get what you are saying with the trees, leaves, etc., but I think the change is more pronounced in somewhere such as, say, Montana, where you'll see the snow start to melt and fade, different vegetation will begin to sprout and grow, etc. It's really a definite signal the Winter is completely over and spring is here, so start getting ready for Summer!
Here, winter kind of just mysteriously blended into April, May, and now, I guess we are in summer. Doesn't feel all that drastically different than spring did or even winter, for that matter. We had some rain this winter, but all in all, the temps were still fairly warm. That is my subjective view
I hope he experienced 80 degrees in DC during December. The record high in Sacramento for December is 72.
I've met quite a few people who moved here from the East Coast and expected 80 degree sunny days throughout the winter here. I guess LA gives the rest of the country the impression that the whole state is warm during the winter.
I lived in RI. I really think that place has three seasons. A hot and humid one which can end anytime from early October through late November, at which point someone sets off a snow bomb. Then there is a transitional season from sometime in February to maybe April when it gradually goes back to hot and humid.
Yes, the leaves turn colours in RI, but they are as colourful in Sacramento. I think the lack of fall colour in most of California is due to the types of trees. Californians typically favour broadleaf evergreens. Cities in the Sacramento Valley have a different selection of trees from most other California cities. Still, there are neighbourhoods where you only see a random tree in fall colour due to what was planted there.
The problem with this post is while some of it is on alot of it is silly banter. I mean really this is part of the reason people in sacramento get annoyed with transplants. Here is a clue just because what you think is 'tradition" on the east coast or midwest does not equate to tradition here. Its so annoying to here people from back east with myopic views as if only their experience is tradition. And this is comming from someone who spent their first 13 years in Chicago.
Get a clue, sacramento does have a winter, ie a colder season distinct from the other three. And if you compare sacramento to the other big 3 metros SD, LA, AND SF, we get more seasonal and temperature change than any of those other places. And if anyone really expected to move to a california metro and experience new england/midwest-like weather, I would tell them to consider getting their head checked, this is California!
You want to see a place with little to no change in weather? Go back to the bay area where you came from and go to SF, where average temperature difference between highs for coldest month and warmest month is 13 degrees. 59-72 exclusively. And never mind the fact that sacramento sits closer to colder winter climate places than any of those other cities. So over all we get it, sac has intense summers, perfect spring and fall, and mild winters.
And making the point that sacramento is flat is silly, and it really gives away the fact that the OP is from the bay, because only people from the bay seem to make an issue of this.
People from the LA basin (which is flat) or back east (where it is really flat in many places) never seem to make a big deal about this. I think its because they comprehend it would be silly. It would be like complaining that denver is flat. No kidding, but the mountains are in your back yard.
People from the bay area always get overly dramatic and act as if they have landed smack dab in the middle of tulsa or omaha nebraska where there is no significant change in elevation for literally thousands of miles. And quite frankly it is really silly, really old, and really pointless.
I never understood the Bay Area's obsession with Sacramento being flat. I had this conversation in a friend's apartment. Sacramento's flatness is a derogatory thing to them. Meanwhile, the view from his window was that of rooftops which went down into a hollow, then buildings that went up a hillside. There wasn't much of anything green from this view. While there were hills, I just thought it they didn't add anything.
I think these things come from some mentality in which people from different areas think they are more because they have lived in colder winters, or whatever. And when it comes to people in San Francisco, well, you really have to consider it is coming from San Francisco's silliness. I once had someone there ask me how I can stand being surrounded by farms. Well, you can't really tell there are farms until you drive some distance out into the rural areas. His reply was some nonsense about having to drive through farm country to get in and out of Sacramento, as if agriculture is a bad thing. Again, so what? I think it is great that California has agriculture and I actually think it is kind of neat that I drive past tomatoes, cotton, corn, rice, nectarines, peaches, plums, asparagus, pecans, walnuts, strawberries, peppers, grapes, and all the other agricultural commodities we have. There aren't too many other places where so many things are grown in close proximity.
The problem with this post is while some of it is on alot of it is silly banter. I mean really this is part of the reason people in sacramento get annoyed with transplants. Here is a clue just because what you think is 'tradition" on the east coast or midwest does not equate to tradition here. Its so annoying to here people from back east with myopic views as if only their experience is tradition. And this is comming from someone who spent their first 13 years in Chicago.
Get a clue, sacramento does have a winter, ie a colder season distinct from the other three. And if you compare sacramento to the other big 3 metros SD, LA, AND SF, we get more seasonal and temperature change than any of those other places. And if anyone really expected to move to a california metro and experience new england/midwest-like weather, I would tell them to consider getting their head checked, this is California!
You want to see a place with little to no change in weather? Go back to the bay area where you came from and go to SF, where average temperature difference between highs for coldest month and warmest month is 13 degrees. 59-72 exclusively. And never mind the fact that sacramento sits closer to colder winter climate places than any of those other cities. So over all we get it, sac has intense summers, perfect spring and fall, and mild winters.
And making the point that sacramento is flat is silly, and it really gives away the fact that the OP is from the bay, because only people from the bay seem to make an issue of this.
People from the LA basin (which is flat) or back east (where it is really flat in many places) never seem to make a big deal about this. I think its because they comprehend it would be silly. It would be like complaining that denver is flat. No kidding, but the mountains are in your back yard.
People from the bay area always get overly dramatic and act as if they have landed smack dab in the middle of tulsa or omaha nebraska where there is no significant change in elevation for literally thousands of miles. And quite frankly it is really silly, really old, and really pointless.
LOL who has the "displaced" attitude again? You or I? Why don't you read my thread with your eyes open next time, and you'll see that I also listed 8 or 9 positives and said it's a good place to live. No one here is complaining but you buddy.
Dude, if you want to debate the factuall aspects of my post, go back a couple pages where I provided the links and do your own research istead of spewing a bunch garbage.
Sacramento is flat. That's a fact. Sacramento is in the top 10 cities in terms of sunny days. That's a fact. Sacramento has no one month out of the year that the average temperature drops below freezing. That's a fact. Sunny days + warm temps = short winter. There's a math equation for you buddy.
If you have a disagreement over the facts, I don't know what to tell you. If you don't like the labeling of those facts as negatives, and you believe they are positives, good for you. I hate to tell you, but a lot of people I have spoken with DO see them as negatives.
I never understood the Bay Area's obsession with Sacramento being flat. I had this conversation in a friend's apartment. Sacramento's flatness is a derogatory thing to them. Meanwhile, the view from his window was that of rooftops which went down into a hollow, then buildings that went up a hillside. There wasn't much of anything green from this view. While there were hills, I just thought it they didn't add anything.
I think these things come from some mentality in which people from different areas think they are more because they have lived in colder winters, or whatever. And when it comes to people in San Francisco, well, you really have to consider it is coming from San Francisco's silliness. I once had someone there ask me how I can stand being surrounded by farms. Well, you can't really tell there are farms until you drive some distance out into the rural areas. His reply was some nonsense about having to drive through farm country to get in and out of Sacramento, as if agriculture is a bad thing. Again, so what? I think it is great that California has agriculture and I actually think it is kind of neat that I drive past tomatoes, cotton, corn, rice, nectarines, peaches, plums, asparagus, pecans, walnuts, strawberries, peppers, grapes, and all the other agricultural commodities we have. There aren't too many other places where so many things are grown in close proximity.
This thread has kind of turned into a ***** fest for everyone that has a problem with anything negative that is posted about Sacramento. If it's negative, then it's "not objective" or it's flat out wrong. Seriously, if you go into an art gallery, how many pictures of mountains or hills do you see painted, and how many paintings do you see of flat plains? I'd bet the ratio is 9 to 1 in favor of hills/mountains. Sorry but a lot of people favor diversity in terrain, as your convo with your friends proves.
I'm from Spokane. That's about as far from San Francisco politically and socially as you can get. A good portion of the city sits on a hill, referred to as the "South Hill". The most expensive houses are in that area and Westward in the valley, which is also more of a hilly terrain. Why?
Because the hills offer better views, they offer a diversity of landscape, and they provide a distinct change. Why are the houses on the Sac/american river towards Folsom $1 mil houses?? Because they offer beautiful views. Sorry, but no matter WHAT your argument is, that same house isn't going for $1 mil if it is located somewhere flat, even if it is in the heart of Land Park or another distinguished neighborhood.
A lot of people just prefer that landscape. It's not that you want to live ON a hill, but you'd like that option available to explore.
The problem with this post is while some of it is on alot of it is silly banter. I mean really this is part of the reason people in sacramento get annoyed with transplants. Here is a clue just because what you think is 'tradition" on the east coast or midwest does not equate to tradition here. Its so annoying to here people from back east with myopic views as if only their experience is tradition. And this is comming from someone who spent their first 13 years in Chicago.
Get a clue, sacramento does have a winter, ie a colder season distinct from the other three. And if you compare sacramento to the other big 3 metros SD, LA, AND SF, we get more seasonal and temperature change than any of those other places. And if anyone really expected to move to a california metro and experience new england/midwest-like weather, I would tell them to consider getting their head checked, this is California!
You want to see a place with little to no change in weather? Go back to the bay area where you came from and go to SF, where average temperature difference between highs for coldest month and warmest month is 13 degrees. 59-72 exclusively. And never mind the fact that sacramento sits closer to colder winter climate places than any of those other cities. So over all we get it, sac has intense summers, perfect spring and fall, and mild winters.
And making the point that sacramento is flat is silly, and it really gives away the fact that the OP is from the bay, because only people from the bay seem to make an issue of this.
People from the LA basin (which is flat) or back east (where it is really flat in many places) never seem to make a big deal about this. I think its because they comprehend it would be silly. It would be like complaining that denver is flat. No kidding, but the mountains are in your back yard.
People from the bay area always get overly dramatic and act as if they have landed smack dab in the middle of tulsa or omaha nebraska where there is no significant change in elevation for literally thousands of miles. And quite frankly it is really silly, really old, and really pointless.
LOL you know what I love about your post? Referring to my thread, you claim that "a lot of it is silly banter", and then you bring up 2 points out of the 17 that I listed to debate. TWO OUT OF SEVENTEEN. I hate to use logic and facts with people like you, because it just never seems to work. Ever. You just ignore facts and logic and go on with your overly opinonated statements.
For example, did I ever make ANY claim about San Franciscos' seasons? Your reference to that doesn't even fit your argument dude. I agree with your statement there. Maybe I'd list that as a negative for San Francisco too if I was from there and wanted to write a postive/negative thread for newcomers.
I think everything you've posted is "silly banter". Seriously, go re-read what you posted. It's not even worth the time.
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