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Old 04-18-2013, 06:59 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,530 posts, read 6,266,915 times
Reputation: 3000

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
The snow has an average water density of 7 percent, compared to the 20 percent water density of the snow in other parts of the country.
7% in LCC, but in the valley? My experience is limited, I admit, but I've never seen blower powder (7%) in the valley. And even 7% snow doesn't stay 7% for long. So I think there are other factors at work.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
21,437 posts, read 25,539,304 times
Reputation: 29520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I'd say the local powers that be have been very good (maybe too good ) about securing water rights and building reservoirs which allows us to waste water like we live in someplace wet and get away with it. We've got contingency plans too... right now most of Utah's legal allotment of Colorado river water ends up being used by NV and CA because we currently don't need it, but those places downstream couldn't do much about it if we decided to take our fair share someday.

You are right about Las Vegas though... that place just doesn't have a future. Everybody knows it, even the people who live there. Once Lake Mead is gone it will cease to exist... and Lake Mead is getting smaller in capacity every year due to silt buildup.
There's a saying: Water rises to $$$!

Pat Mulroy of the Water Dept. in Las Vegas here has aired the idea of a water pipeline extending from the Mississippi River east to Page, AZ/Powell Dam, and pour it in there! Why let all that water run off into the Gulf of Mexico!!!

Who would pay for it? All the states that would use it: TX, NM, AZ, NV, CA and Baja Mexico. And Utah?

We have gas/oil pipelines crossing the country, and no water lines?

Yes, yes! There are times, like last year, the Mississippi river flow was low, due to drought conditions, so in the years there's an abundance, you set up reservoirs along that line for future use!

Other alternative: Desalination plants off the California coast! That would also reduce the water demand from the Colorado River! Expensive? Again, water will always rise to $$$!

P.S., a belated thank-you to the Governor of Utah for not signing off on that water deal involving the Snake Valley! I was opposed to that water pipeline deal from the gitgo!

Last edited by tijlover; 04-18-2013 at 08:00 PM.. Reason: Add line
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: In the realm of possiblities
2,709 posts, read 2,621,855 times
Reputation: 3268
We lived in Spanish Fork, along the Wasatch Front, and that area was always referred to as a " high desert", even from the locals. When we first moved there, the chamber of Commerce brochure talked all about the area, and had a paragraph about how, if all the irrigation were to be stopped there, the whole Wasatch-Salt Lake area would convert back to creosote bushes, and sagebrush in no time. In looking at the historical literature of the early settlers, the theft of water from another person, usually by diversion with ditches, could be grounds for death to the thief. I worked part-time for one of the parks there, and I can assure you, when the sprinklers came on at the park, there wasn't any indication that conservation was on anyone's mind. All of us in the neighborhood tried to regulate our watering to conserve as much as we could, but when a person puts so much money into their yard to try to keep on par with the CC&R's, it's hard to watch it wither, while the ball parks are looking like golf courses. It is, a Catch-22 to be sure. I think the public, there needs to be educated on local flora, and even planting techniques, and maybe, then, they will be able to strike a balance, and at least not run the risk of one day having their P.I. rationed.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:44 PM
 
Location: east millcreek
835 posts, read 1,954,233 times
Reputation: 529
The State decided you could keep your rainwater back in May of 2010....
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,530 posts, read 6,266,915 times
Reputation: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by 124c41 View Post
We lived in Spanish Fork, along the Wasatch Front, and that area was always referred to as a " high desert", even from the locals. When we first moved there, the chamber of Commerce brochure talked all about the area, and had a paragraph about how, if all the irrigation were to be stopped there, the whole Wasatch-Salt Lake area would convert back to creosote bushes, and sagebrush in no time.
That, EXACTLY, was what crossed my mind at the outset. Leading me to the philosophical question about the nature of "conservatism." My observation is that the redder the prevailing political culture the greater the likelihood of NOT conserving obviously finite natural resources and attempting to dominate nature. Seems like it ought to be the other way around.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 21,228,322 times
Reputation: 14072
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
There's a saying: Water rises to $$$!

Pat Mulroy of the Water Dept. in Las Vegas here has aired the idea of a water pipeline extending from the Mississippi River east to Page, AZ/Powell Dam, and pour it in there! Why let all that water run off into the Gulf of Mexico!!!

Who would pay for it? All the states that would use it: TX, NM, AZ, NV, CA and Baja Mexico. And Utah?

We have gas/oil pipelines crossing the country, and no water lines?

Yes, yes! There are times, like last year, the Mississippi river flow was low, due to drought conditions, so in the years there's an abundance, you set up reservoirs along that line for future use!

Other alternative: Desalination plants off the California coast! That would also reduce the water demand from the Colorado River! Expensive? Again, water will always rise to $$$!

P.S., a belated thank-you to the Governor of Utah for not signing off on that water deal involving the Snake Valley! I was opposed to that water pipeline deal from the gitgo!
Interesting... I suppose it make sense to figure the $$$ would be found to do something insane like a water pipeline to East rather than just abandoning the place.

I'm glad about the Snake Valley water thing too... honestly it would have hurt Nevada ranchers far worse than Utah as there just aren't that many on the North end of Snake valley and most of their water comes from several permanent streams originating in the surprisingly wet Deep Creek Mountains. It would have been a disaster for the area around Great Basin National Park though; they depend on wells.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:18 PM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
4,844 posts, read 3,859,706 times
Reputation: 7762
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisfitBanana View Post
I think people would start converting lawns into dryscape/xeroscape/sustainable gardens if there were more incentive to. I'm talking about some type of tax break. Like there was a tax break for people to put in new windows/make their home more energy efficient. If there was a make-your-garden-more-energy-efficient tax break, I think more and more people would take the government up on it. I have a sustainable garden in my front yard that requires very little water because I didn't want to take care of the lawn (and the previous homeowners had let the lawn get absolutely horrible). I also am starting to convert my back lawn into raised garden beds. I see more houses doing similar things on my street as well. But again, I think there needs to be a good reason for people to do it, beyond "you'll be saving water..." The initial costs of tearing out and replacing your lawn with xeroscape (or similar) can be high (not everyone can do the work themselves), so there needs to be an immediate incentive (which would be followed by the incentive of lower water costs throughout the year).

I do think that it's becoming more in vogue to be more self-reliant, though. I think more and more people are using rain barrels, having a veg garden, having a little compost pile, I think raising your own backyard chickens is starting to become more of a thing. Basically, I think if you give it some time, more and more people will start to be more conservation/self-reliant minded, and you'll see some improvements in the type of landscaping people do (and in their water conservation).

Not where I live. I think in "libertarian Utah" - people will do what they damn well please. I have a neighbor - who lives next to us (uphill, btw) and he waters his grass THREE TIMES A DAY in summer. Such a waste. Why? Because he can afford it. And he prefers grass to xeriscaping.

Had a friend/coworker convert her entire South Jordan lawn/yard to xeriscaping and native plants. Cost her $20K. It died the next year.

Many, many yards in the Salt Lake Valley go to dirt because people cannot afford to maintain them.

Xeriscaping to most people here is just stone and dirt. Look at all of the people who don't want to mow or maintain their parkways.... and cement or stone them over? U-G-L-Y... Cities are now getting involved in what kinds of plants/trees are acceptable for parkways.... Look for more of this in the future - and look for people to be pissed off that government is again telling them what to do....

The only "incentive" people respond to is a high water bill.... and then that's only some people. And that "incentive" means they will neglect their property.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
7,855 posts, read 8,303,809 times
Reputation: 3428
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlb View Post
Not where I live. I think in "libertarian Utah" - people will do what they damn well please. I have a neighbor - who lives next to us (uphill, btw) and he waters his grass THREE TIMES A DAY in summer. Such a waste. Why? Because he can afford it. And he prefers grass to xeriscaping.

Had a friend/coworker convert her entire South Jordan lawn/yard to xeriscaping and native plants. Cost her $20K. It died the next year.

Many, many yards in the Salt Lake Valley go to dirt because people cannot afford to maintain them.

Xeriscaping to most people here is just stone and dirt. Look at all of the people who don't want to mow or maintain their parkways.... and cement or stone them over? U-G-L-Y... Cities are now getting involved in what kinds of plants/trees are acceptable for parkways.... Look for more of this in the future - and look for people to be pissed off that government is again telling them what to do....

The only "incentive" people respond to is a high water bill.... and then that's only some people. And that "incentive" means they will neglect their property.
Lack of responsibility is the opposite of Libertarian.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:31 PM
 
9,093 posts, read 11,039,767 times
Reputation: 11822
If our population keeps growing at the rates it has been, it will become a serious issue in some of our lifetimes. Throw in a few years of drought, and we could be hurting badly.

Best of all, when Vegas, Phoenix, etc, really start getting sick of the parched throats (and/or the exorbitant water bills) that are in their future, guess where many will move? Up here, and it will only accelerate our race towards the same end. There's only so much water to go around.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
21,437 posts, read 25,539,304 times
Reputation: 29520
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
If our population keeps growing at the rates it has been, it will become a serious issue in some of our lifetimes. Throw in a few years of drought, and we could be hurting badly.

Best of all, when Vegas, Phoenix, etc, really start getting sick of the parched throats (and/or the exorbitant water bills) that are in their future, guess where many will move? Up here, and it will only accelerate our race towards the same end. There's only so much water to go around.
2 million in Las Vegas now, so if we all move to Utah, we'll be considerate enough to not all move to Salt Lake City, one million of us will move to the St. George area! Ready for us?

Think, for a moment, of the Middle East/Israel, all desert countries largely dependent on exported water! Where does it come from? One source, there's a huge dam up in Turkey, which controls water going south, similar to our Hoover Dam. If a terrorist blew that dam up, it would be absolute chaos over there! Israel, not so much, as they have the $$$ to build desalination plants!

There's many other desert regions of the world that are also dependent on exported water. To force these people to leave those regions and relocate to watery regions of the world, what will be gained!!!
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