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Old 08-08-2015, 08:26 PM
 
Location: DFW
2,893 posts, read 3,470,931 times
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I think it's funny that someone can make a thread asking about a "non-white" area of a major city; however, if someone was to ask about a "non-black" area, the thread would be closed and that OP would probably be banned.

 
Old 08-08-2015, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
19,855 posts, read 65,574,293 times
Reputation: 19374
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Towner View Post
I think it's funny that someone can make a thread asking about a "non-white" area of a major city; however, if someone was to ask about a "non-black" area, the thread would be closed and that OP would probably be banned.
Try reading the OP again. The OP did NOT ask where the non-white folks live. He made some observations from his prospective.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:57 PM
 
10 posts, read 11,634 times
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Scary accurate!
 
Old 01-10-2016, 10:52 PM
 
45 posts, read 99,797 times
Reputation: 26
Default Refreshing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
In all honesty, Lamborgotti, this has got to be one of the most insightful posts I've ever read on city-data. Thank you.

I have to agree. I found the original post courageous and eloquent in that he is able to present and define issues that so many will try to soft-peddle, or completely deny as issues, as if this will make it all go away.

I strongly believe it's this very practice of denial that acts as a promoting factor for this particular problem-racism. This does not live only in the minds of over sensitive people. It's deeply ingrained, interwoven into the fabric of our society and, for the time being, continues to prove to be unfortunately inescapable.

Thank you again for your original post.
 
Old 01-25-2016, 04:26 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,267 times
Reputation: 17
I find this to be quite interesting. I'm white and Mormon, but I would have to agree with you on awkwardness. In the neighborhood my family moved to, there are a lot of families who homeschool and don't get out much. I grew up in a Mormon town and many families just stayed in that little town and never left. For a lot of Mormons, the only opportunity to become "cultured" is when they serve as missionaries all around the world for 2 years. I would love to see more diversity in Utah. I would encourage you to learn more about the church and their value system so you can better understand why those people do what they do. Thank you for your honesty. I agree that the church could do more to reach out to those struggling in the community. Look up LDS humanitarian organization and I think you would be surprised to see what has already been done. Also tour Welfare Square if you get the chance.
 
Old 02-01-2016, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Connectucut shore but on a hill
2,617 posts, read 6,982,767 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorbombeii View Post
Just to begin, I have lived in a handful of cities and this website is always helpful when I'm thinking of or planning a move. So I'm a long time visitor, first time poster. Heck, all I have to say is just some unorganized babble.

>>>>snip<<<<
Again, I am from NC...so I'm used to hospitality. Southern Hospitality. No hospitality here...just awkwardness. A city full of social awkwardness. Regardless of what others have to say about the people being so nice and this and that....they're not. Could be because of my stature (6'4", 210lbs). Might be something about my vibe or aura that I'm not aware of. Maybe because they have never seen my face in church. Could be because of something else. I might simply expect too much.

I have run into some super super nice people (2 senior women at Harmons downtown, cashier at Family Dollar, and salesman at the Ferrari Dealership) but generally speaking, people aren't that nice or outgoing to strangers and that's that. Don't let anyone on this site or elsewhere tell you any different. And remember, this is relative as I am from NC where people are super nice and outgoing. (I only realized that this year after moving back to NC from Houston)

Yes, I said this city is full of social awkwardness. In my opinion, it is. I sincerely think that some of these people around here are afraid of what's different. Personally, I embrace diversity...read the title. I think a lot of the people here look down their noses at me. I have a feeling why, but I don't have any concrete evidence. Hell, I don't want any concrete evidence. Really, the only thing that I can conclude is that [allegedly] the book of mormon says that people with darker skin are the descendents of Cain of the Bible and are cursed by God or some shi*t like that. That was the reason for denying Blacks into priesthood (until the ban was lifted in the 70's allegedly because the church was going to lose its tax exempt status). So, racism is embedded into this fluke of a religion and that religion built this big beautiful city. Why would I expect anything different? And yes I know that Joseph Smith and some others were avid abolitionalists, but I'm speaking on what I experience daily.

>>>snip<<<
You will be engulfed by a general sense of overall weirdness.

Lastly and MOST importantly, if you are not a sheep, not LDS, not white and you don't know anyone out here and you are socially sensitive....there are probably better, more receptive places in this country to reside. Much, much better places. Like ANYWHERE on the east coast. Again, this is my personal opinion. But for socially aware people who frequent this site for questions and answers on being a minority, non LDS, interracial couples, etc moving or living in SLC, here is my OPINION on living here for 4 weeks - Its fine, I haven't had any real problems, but you'll stand out. People will not go out of the way to make you feel comfortable. You may notice that pedestrians will put extra space between you and them on the sidewalk. One guy last night chose to walk on the grass when there was enough room for 5 people on the sidewalk, so I moved as close to him as possible. Probably scared the sh*t out of the racist. A girl did that to my visiting friend last week and he threw his hands in the air and went "boogey woogey woogey!" So funny! I have a low tolerance for racism and you should too.

>>>snip<<<
This thread, and many of the posts are both fascinating and remarkable, both good and bad. After spending a lot more time here now, and in various parts of town, I thought I'd add a few observations of my own. Please take it as observations, not a critique. Here goes.

I actually think the OP really is on to something. I've been paying close attention to what the OP describes. However, I really don't think that race is the underlying issue - I'm a very typical AngloWhiteMan and have actually had a number of very similar experiences.

I'll boil down my observations to this: When somebody is in a situation where interpersonal interaction is either expected or required, such as any kind of service or sales person, then people are very, very helpful and friendly. However, if there's no specific connection then there's a very strong tendency for people to be remote and standoffish. It's as if there's a strong cultural or social norm that you're just not supposed to talk to strangers. This isn't universal of course (what is?), but it's a consistent and prevailing social behavior.

I can cite several specific and repeated examples.
  • In supermarket lines there's no interaction, eye contact or small talk between people. It's the exact opposite of what happens in NY lines or the south where perfect strangers chat each other up all the time.
  • In the NE when somebody lets you cut into a line of traffic it's expected that the cutter-inner give a little wave to the person that let them if they're at all visible. That doesn't seem to happen here. Again, this isn't 100%, but it's the case far more often than not. I mentioned this observation to a couple SLC friends who validated it - until I mentioned it they took it as the norm because here it is!
  • Pedestrians avoid eye contact. I've yet to see somebody look up and smile at a passer by.

Now, I can't interpret the causes, but this stuff really does seem to be the norm. But it really doesn't bother me. I've lived elsewhere and experienced all kinds of weird stuff. That said, it's easy to imagine how somebody could be bothered by it. It's equally easy to see that it also has nothing to do with the other person's behavior, such as the OP's.

Despite all that, my wife and I are thoroughly enjoying things here! We didn't move here to smile at strangers (though I do anyway). After all, people don't make much eye contact on the street in NYC either. But they certainly do interact when waiting in line, or saying high to the person in the next seat in a movie while sitting. It just seems a bit sad that so many people seem to work so hard to avoid those little social interactions that can just make life a little more pleasant.
 
Old 02-02-2016, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,870 posts, read 29,668,262 times
Reputation: 13049
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
This thread, and many of the posts are both fascinating and remarkable, both good and bad. After spending a lot more time here now, and in various parts of town, I thought I'd add a few observations of my own. Please take it as observations, not a critique. Here goes.

I actually think the OP really is on to something. I've been paying close attention to what the OP describes. However, I really don't think that race is the underlying issue - I'm a very typical AngloWhiteMan and have actually had a number of very similar experiences.

I'll boil down my observations to this: When somebody is in a situation where interpersonal interaction is either expected or required, such as any kind of service or sales person, then people are very, very helpful and friendly. However, if there's no specific connection then there's a very strong tendency for people to be remote and standoffish. It's as if there's a strong cultural or social norm that you're just not supposed to talk to strangers. This isn't universal of course (what is?), but it's a consistent and prevailing social behavior.

I can cite several specific and repeated examples.
  • In supermarket lines there's no interaction, eye contact or small talk between people. It's the exact opposite of what happens in NY lines or the south where perfect strangers chat each other up all the time.
  • In the NE when somebody lets you cut into a line of traffic it's expected that the cutter-inner give a little wave to the person that let them if they're at all visible. That doesn't seem to happen here. Again, this isn't 100%, but it's the case far more often than not. I mentioned this observation to a couple SLC friends who validated it - until I mentioned it they took it as the norm because here it is!
  • Pedestrians avoid eye contact. I've yet to see somebody look up and smile at a passer by.

Now, I can't interpret the causes, but this stuff really does seem to be the norm. But it really doesn't bother me. I've lived elsewhere and experienced all kinds of weird stuff. That said, it's easy to imagine how somebody could be bothered by it. It's equally easy to see that it also has nothing to do with the other person's behavior, such as the OP's.

Despite all that, my wife and I are thoroughly enjoying things here! We didn't move here to smile at strangers (though I do anyway). After all, people don't make much eye contact on the street in NYC either. But they certainly do interact when waiting in line, or saying high to the person in the next seat in a movie while sitting. It just seems a bit sad that so many people seem to work so hard to avoid those little social interactions that can just make life a little more pleasant.
That's interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all. For instance, I just brought my husband home from a hospital stay yesterday. During the week he was there, I had what I would call "small talk" between me and people in the hospital waiting room and in the elevators. When I went to the grocery store just last night, I interacted with the people in line behind me. In thinking back on these situations, I believe I instigated the conversation in most of them. Once I did, though, the people I spoke to were very friendly and outgoing. I have seldom stood in a long line in Salt Lake (like waiting to buy event tickets, for instance) where people weren't talking to everybody near them.
 
Old 02-02-2016, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Connectucut shore but on a hill
2,617 posts, read 6,982,767 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That's interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all. For instance, I just brought my husband home from a hospital stay yesterday. During the week he was there, I had what I would call "small talk" between me and people in the hospital waiting room and in the elevators. When I went to the grocery store just last night, I interacted with the people in line behind me. In thinking back on these situations, I believe I instigated the conversation in most of them. Once I did, though, the people I spoke to were very friendly and outgoing. I have seldom stood in a long line in Salt Lake (like waiting to buy event tickets, for instance) where people weren't talking to everybody near them.
Maybe it's relative to other places? Or maybe it's situational? I don't know. But my wife and I absolutely have observed what I'm talking about. And don't get me wrong - our basis for comparison is NY which is a VERY outgoing, in-your-face place. My point is simply that there really is something to what the OP is writing about that can't just be dismissed.

And yet, despite all that, our experiences have nevertheless been overwhelmingly positive. We're having a great time exploring and doing stuff. We've been staying downtown the last 2 weeks. There's an amazing amount going on here besides just skiing! I'll post on all that in due course.
We couldn't be more thrilled to be here.
 
Old 02-07-2016, 11:25 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 13,369,644 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bea06004 View Post
I find this to be quite interesting. I'm white and Mormon, but I would have to agree with you on awkwardness. In the neighborhood my family moved to, there are a lot of families who homeschool and don't get out much. I grew up in a Mormon town and many families just stayed in that little town and never left. For a lot of Mormons, the only opportunity to become "cultured" is when they serve as missionaries all around the world for 2 years. I would love to see more diversity in Utah. I would encourage you to learn more about the church and their value system so you can better understand why those people do what they do. Thank you for your honesty. I agree that the church could do more to reach out to those struggling in the community. Look up LDS humanitarian organization and I think you would be surprised to see what has already been done. Also tour Welfare Square if you get the chance.
I like your post, too, bea. You encourage others to learn and suggest how to start that process.

I agree that Mormon families in small towns can remain there without seeing much of the outside world. The same is true for non-Mormons. Often families in small towns have family businesses or family obligations which keep them from moving elsewhere. But many travel, perhaps more than some would think. Travel isn't living elsewhere, still getting food from a NYC hotdogs vendor the first time opens up a lot of new ideas and discussions they wouldn't have had at home.

Always, I support the LDS Church and the Humanitarian efforts. It's not just the natural disasters, but also the plane loads of vaccinations, other medicines and sending physicians, nurses and others to help. It has to be in the top three churches in the world for Humanitarian efforts.

Honesty benefits everyone involved. To progress and better understand those different than ourselves, honesty and respect are needed.

Great post to the OP.

I hope you post more, bea
 
Old 02-07-2016, 11:37 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 13,369,644 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
That's interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all. For instance, I just brought my husband home from a hospital stay yesterday. During the week he was there, I had what I would call "small talk" between me and people in the hospital waiting room and in the elevators. When I went to the grocery store just last night, I interacted with the people in line behind me. In thinking back on these situations, I believe I instigated the conversation in most of them. Once I did, though, the people I spoke to were very friendly and outgoing. I have seldom stood in a long line in Salt Lake (like waiting to buy event tickets, for instance) where people weren't talking to everybody near them.
I've had the same experiences as you Katz. I hope your husband is doing better I usually wear my ear buds and play my MP3 when I know I'll be shopping because I don't enjoy talking to everyone I see. I'm not anti-social, I simply value time away from certain stressors. If I can listen to music I like instead of talking to many, that works best for me currently. When I get to the checkout line people are always friendly and talk to me.

People waiting in a hospital can be a source of support or they can be a drain, given their own situation and stress with someone they love being hospitalized. I think one has to consider the setting and stressors to others as well as their ownself. I'd never judge a person or family for behaving in X manor, given the multiple variables in a hospital setting.

MSR
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