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Old 02-11-2016, 03:02 PM
 
479 posts, read 1,011,633 times
Reputation: 194

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centercab - It's hard to not voice a different opinion in the face of intentional hurtful ignorance.

Quote for the day:

Quote:
“Pit race against race, religion against religion, prejudice against prejudice. Divide and conquer! We must not let that happen here.”
Eleanor Roosevelt

We are after all one human race. Colors and ethnicities are merely of geographical consequence. Of course all colors can procreate therefore we are all one in the same.

I am embarrassed by your lack of compassion and empathy to say such offensive remarks without conscience.

 
Old 02-12-2016, 12:09 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,278 times
Reputation: 28
First off, I must admit, I was not looking for this thread but happy that I found it. My wife and I are what is considered a mixed/interracial couple. She is German and I am Afro-American/Black (depends on the flavor of the day in PC language). I left the United States when I was 18 and went to Europe. I lived there the majority of my 54 years only coming back here to settle in mid 2015. Coming to Utah was not a choice and one I railed against when I first found out I was being transferred here...for a day. I say a day because I began to think, maybe this is not a bad thing. I had been to the U.S. on multiple occasions in between the time I left and now so I had an idea of how life works here. We originally were looking at Maryland and am totally ecstatic that our ultimate destination became Utah.

I began to read this thread at the beginning with the post from the doctor in 2013 and found it very insightful although a bit naive and presumptuous (valid points were made but as he stated, it was his opinion, and from my point of view not based on facts). I don't want to judge his opinion, it is not my place to do so nor do I have the right because I don't know what his experiences were other than what he posted. Be that as it may, my personal encounters have been much different. We have found Utah and the people we have encountered so far are open and welcoming. I must caveat that with obviously not all of them. We have had people come to our house from the Church to invite us to services and we declined but are open to visiting at some point (I am Catholic and my wife is Atheist). What I find so strange is the friendliness of the people we encounter. Be it Layton or SLC. We have people greet us on the street, start conversations in our yard or go out of their way to be friendly at a market. My wife, who has traveled the world more than I ( but I am a close second...she was a flight attendant), has taken to Utah as if it was her home which now it is for us both.

The people coming here (this forum), expressing their feelings of racism are rightly so expressing the encounters they perceive and the experiences they have expected based on the notions they have taken into the encounter. Some are valid but in my opinion (notice the wording is subjective), it may be a false representation based on expectations of a locations that is not exceptionally diverse. Our daughter who lives in Europe came to visit us from University after we got semi settled and was so enamored with the place, she could see herself living here although never having lived in the U.S. her entire life ( she is 19 now). I guess my point is, if all you know is life with a particular tint, you will see life with that same tint unless you do something or something actively happens to change it for you.

I don't see Utah as a challenge in respect to diversity...go to the middle east or to the Baltic nations or even parts of London or Paris for that matter. Heck, Scotland will give you a wakeup call if you are in the wrong place not to mention Ireland. We as a species have been doing this for a long time...overcoming and adapting. It is not something new. Some of us need to be dragged and some go willing into change but what is inevitable is change will happen whether we like it or not. Just my 2 Pence.

Last edited by Camaro889; 02-12-2016 at 12:33 AM..
 
Old 02-12-2016, 03:08 AM
 
8,440 posts, read 13,361,523 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro889 View Post
First off, I must admit, I was not looking for this thread but happy that I found it. My wife and I are what is considered a mixed/interracial couple. She is German and I am Afro-American/Black (depends on the flavor of the day in PC language). I left the United States when I was 18 and went to Europe. I lived there the majority of my 54 years only coming back here to settle in mid 2015. Coming to Utah was not a choice and one I railed against when I first found out I was being transferred here...for a day. I say a day because I began to think, maybe this is not a bad thing. I had been to the U.S. on multiple occasions in between the time I left and now so I had an idea of how life works here. We originally were looking at Maryland and am totally ecstatic that our ultimate destination became Utah.

I began to read this thread at the beginning with the post from the doctor in 2013 and found it very insightful although a bit naive and presumptuous (valid points were made but as he stated, it was his opinion, and from my point of view not based on facts). I don't want to judge his opinion, it is not my place to do so nor do I have the right because I don't know what his experiences were other than what he posted. Be that as it may, my personal encounters have been much different. We have found Utah and the people we have encountered so far are open and welcoming. I must caveat that with obviously not all of them. We have had people come to our house from the Church to invite us to services and we declined but are open to visiting at some point (I am Catholic and my wife is Atheist). What I find so strange is the friendliness of the people we encounter. Be it Layton or SLC. We have people greet us on the street, start conversations in our yard or go out of their way to be friendly at a market. My wife, who has traveled the world more than I ( but I am a close second...she was a flight attendant), has taken to Utah as if it was her home which now it is for us both.

The people coming here (this forum), expressing their feelings of racism are rightly so expressing the encounters they perceive and the experiences they have expected based on the notions they have taken into the encounter. Some are valid but in my opinion (notice the wording is subjective), it may be a false representation based on expectations of a locations that is not exceptionally diverse. Our daughter who lives in Europe came to visit us from University after we got semi settled and was so enamored with the place, she could see herself living here although never having lived in the U.S. her entire life ( she is 19 now). I guess my point is, if all you know is life with a particular tint, you will see life with that same tint unless you do something or something actively happens to change it for you.

I don't see Utah as a challenge in respect to diversity...go to the middle east or to the Baltic nations or even parts of London or Paris for that matter. Heck, Scotland will give you a wakeup call if you are in the wrong place not to mention Ireland. We as a species have been doing this for a long time...overcoming and adapting. It is not something new. Some of us need to be dragged and some go willing into change but what is inevitable is change will happen whether we like it or not. Just my 2 Pence.
Welcome Camaro.

This is a really excellent post, IMO. The more different opinions about Utah posted, the better.

Lots of people mention the friendliness. There could be multiple factors, but people wouldn't continue to be friendly if you and your wife weren't perceived as being receptive to making new friends. I agree with you that often people have self-fulfilling prophicies. I also believe especially with black males (hope that is PC enough for you. No slight was meant.) that if the male is larger ( 6'8" or taller) the tall frame will distance some people until they know the person.

There are several former Utah Jazz and other ex or current pro sports players who live in Utah. Thurl Bailey probably doesn't intimidate people the way other black athletes do, given his size, given his tv work. Familiarity with a person increases the friendliness of others. Mark Eaton, the former 7 ft. + Jazz Center, would intimidate many who didn't know what he looks like. It can be difficult to be a small female and feel safe, initially, around someone two feet taller.

I hope you will post many posts sharing your experiences and observations. Sometimes those who have only lived in one state don't stop to think what messages they might be sending to others who haven't lived in that state. Diversity requires understanding to be successful, IMO.

MSR
 
Old 02-12-2016, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,849 posts, read 29,634,233 times
Reputation: 13042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro889 View Post
First off, I must admit, I was not looking for this thread but happy that I found it. My wife and I are what is considered a mixed/interracial couple. She is German and I am Afro-American/Black (depends on the flavor of the day in PC language). I left the United States when I was 18 and went to Europe. I lived there the majority of my 54 years only coming back here to settle in mid 2015. Coming to Utah was not a choice and one I railed against when I first found out I was being transferred here...for a day. I say a day because I began to think, maybe this is not a bad thing. I had been to the U.S. on multiple occasions in between the time I left and now so I had an idea of how life works here. We originally were looking at Maryland and am totally ecstatic that our ultimate destination became Utah.

I began to read this thread at the beginning with the post from the doctor in 2013 and found it very insightful although a bit naive and presumptuous (valid points were made but as he stated, it was his opinion, and from my point of view not based on facts). I don't want to judge his opinion, it is not my place to do so nor do I have the right because I don't know what his experiences were other than what he posted. Be that as it may, my personal encounters have been much different. We have found Utah and the people we have encountered so far are open and welcoming. I must caveat that with obviously not all of them. We have had people come to our house from the Church to invite us to services and we declined but are open to visiting at some point (I am Catholic and my wife is Atheist). What I find so strange is the friendliness of the people we encounter. Be it Layton or SLC. We have people greet us on the street, start conversations in our yard or go out of their way to be friendly at a market. My wife, who has traveled the world more than I ( but I am a close second...she was a flight attendant), has taken to Utah as if it was her home which now it is for us both.

The people coming here (this forum), expressing their feelings of racism are rightly so expressing the encounters they perceive and the experiences they have expected based on the notions they have taken into the encounter. Some are valid but in my opinion (notice the wording is subjective), it may be a false representation based on expectations of a locations that is not exceptionally diverse. Our daughter who lives in Europe came to visit us from University after we got semi settled and was so enamored with the place, she could see herself living here although never having lived in the U.S. her entire life ( she is 19 now). I guess my point is, if all you know is life with a particular tint, you will see life with that same tint unless you do something or something actively happens to change it for you.

I don't see Utah as a challenge in respect to diversity...go to the middle east or to the Baltic nations or even parts of London or Paris for that matter. Heck, Scotland will give you a wakeup call if you are in the wrong place not to mention Ireland. We as a species have been doing this for a long time...overcoming and adapting. It is not something new. Some of us need to be dragged and some go willing into change but what is inevitable is change will happen whether we like it or not. Just my 2 Pence.
Wow! What a positive, upbeat post. You sound like the kind of person anyone would like to have as a friend or neighbor. It's no wonder you feel at home in Salt Lake City. You'd probably feel at home anywhere you settled -- but I'm glad it was here.
 
Old 02-12-2016, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,849 posts, read 29,634,233 times
Reputation: 13042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
Diversity requires understanding to be successful, IMO.
Amen!
 
Old 02-12-2016, 11:20 PM
 
Location: The other side of the mountain
2,502 posts, read 6,939,210 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro889 View Post
First off, I must admit, I was not looking for this thread but happy that I found it. My wife and I are what is considered a mixed/interracial couple. She is German and I am Afro-American/Black (depends on the flavor of the day in PC language). I left the United States when I was 18 and went to Europe. I lived there the majority of my 54 years only coming back here to settle in mid 2015. Coming to Utah was not a choice and one I railed against when I first found out I was being transferred here...for a day. I say a day because I began to think, maybe this is not a bad thing. I had been to the U.S. on multiple occasions in between the time I left and now so I had an idea of how life works here. We originally were looking at Maryland and am totally ecstatic that our ultimate destination became Utah.

I began to read this thread at the beginning with the post from the doctor in 2013 and found it very insightful although a bit naive and presumptuous (valid points were made but as he stated, it was his opinion, and from my point of view not based on facts). I don't want to judge his opinion, it is not my place to do so nor do I have the right because I don't know what his experiences were other than what he posted. Be that as it may, my personal encounters have been much different. We have found Utah and the people we have encountered so far are open and welcoming. I must caveat that with obviously not all of them. We have had people come to our house from the Church to invite us to services and we declined but are open to visiting at some point (I am Catholic and my wife is Atheist). What I find so strange is the friendliness of the people we encounter. Be it Layton or SLC. We have people greet us on the street, start conversations in our yard or go out of their way to be friendly at a market. My wife, who has traveled the world more than I ( but I am a close second...she was a flight attendant), has taken to Utah as if it was her home which now it is for us both.

The people coming here (this forum), expressing their feelings of racism are rightly so expressing the encounters they perceive and the experiences they have expected based on the notions they have taken into the encounter. Some are valid but in my opinion (notice the wording is subjective), it may be a false representation based on expectations of a locations that is not exceptionally diverse. Our daughter who lives in Europe came to visit us from University after we got semi settled and was so enamored with the place, she could see herself living here although never having lived in the U.S. her entire life ( she is 19 now). I guess my point is, if all you know is life with a particular tint, you will see life with that same tint unless you do something or something actively happens to change it for you.

I don't see Utah as a challenge in respect to diversity...go to the middle east or to the Baltic nations or even parts of London or Paris for that matter. Heck, Scotland will give you a wakeup call if you are in the wrong place not to mention Ireland. We as a species have been doing this for a long time...overcoming and adapting. It is not something new. Some of us need to be dragged and some go willing into change but what is inevitable is change will happen whether we like it or not. Just my 2 Pence.
Hey! Welcome to Utah. I thought your post was excellent. I only wanted to add I sure as hell wish you were my neighbor!
 
Old 02-14-2016, 12:29 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,278 times
Reputation: 28
Mtn, Katz, Kay,


Thank you for the kind words...it is greatly appreciated. I have lived in many places in my life and have experienced so many different religions, cultures and political points of view to last a life time. What has benefited me most is the continued thought that no matter what, things can only get better for we have already experienced things being bad on all levels of our interactions. If we don't learn from any opportunity/challenge presented to us then we do ourselves a great dis-service and unwittingly stump the growth of people we will encounter in our travels. That to me is a failure on my part to contribute and as they say, you are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem. Take care all. Regards.
 
Old 02-15-2016, 08:37 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 893,722 times
Reputation: 734
doctorbombeii,

What an interesting post. I actually was browsing the boards as my wife and I are looking to relocate somewhere in the next year or so from our current residency in the Bay Area.

Admittedly, I have a grand total of 22 hours to share with you about my experience in SLC. I'm Black and my wife is Asian, so right off the bat we got a few looks. I knew going in that the population was rather homogeneous, so I pretty much geared up for it. We arrived at the airport and my first experience was an extremely rude woman at the rental car company that was furious with me for not purchasing the gas option, or purchasing insurance (she was downright threatening). Honestly, I know they try to push these things, but this was really over the top. She put us in what I can only describe as the ugliest colored car I have every seen (it was like an orange gold PT Cruiser). My wife and I just looked at each other when we got to the car and laughed. We stayed at the downtown Marriott and we're quite surprise as we drove there at what I would describe as the "Western" feel to the town (it just looked very antiquated to what I was used to back home). Check-in was pleasant enough and I got a kick out of the outdoor ice skating rink outside. We walked to the restaurant holding hands (again, got a few double takes by people). There we met one of the only two Asian people (she was a hostess) we encountered on our trip (the only Black person we saw was the janitor at the airport). Had a nice meal and were shocked at how inexpensive it was. The next morning, I walked down the street to pick up a pack of gum at the store. Made eye contact and said good morning to a few people (got one good morning back and the rest were non-responses). The realtor dropped by and we had a great conversation with her and her husband (the 2nd Asian person). We drove over to the property, met the owners (had a nice chat), liked the house, and left. Dropped off the pretty car at the airport, my wife ordered a drink at the bar, I sat down next to her, was immediately told by the server that if I didn't order a drink, I'd have to leave (so I ordered a coke that I didn't want and didn't tip her). Got on the plane and left. We bought the house and have been a landlord in SLC for almost a decade now. Not too many issues with the exception of the prostitute that we had to evict (glad I have a great property manager...they sold everything in the house and got back the two months of rent she was late on). And that's my story.

P.S. We thought about moving into the property and relocating there for all of about a second. I'm thinking it's probably not the best idea.

Last edited by bodyforlife99; 02-15-2016 at 08:45 AM..
 
Old 03-21-2016, 08:42 PM
 
56 posts, read 67,872 times
Reputation: 39
okay so this is something that is bothering me, even as a white male who doesn't socialize and can care less what you do outside of it impacting my home with loud annoying music or anything else

the biggest appeal of SLC is gigabit fiber everywhere and the climate as well as being away from any natural disasters but also not miles of snowfall and still inexpensive.

but this heavy influence of LDS influence, even to the point of threads talking about how even in the work place, you almost NEED to join their cult just to mingle and succeed, as well as almost all rental properties having "LDS standards" or something else associated to them is more annoying to hear than anything else.

i was worried that florida was going to be a bible belt, but i guess im lucky to be near Tampa/Sarasota where most people are northern raised and although yes there are churches all over the people in the real world (aka the work force) dont talk about church or religion.

ive even had my fair share of weekend door knockers for different churches, i have no problem putting a "no soliciting" sign on my door, or just now answering

so for those who naturally keep to themselves, have you noticed any issues? like if you go into a job agency or anywhere to apply for jobs do you get outright asked if you're a crazy cultist, which when you say "no" then results in passive aggressiveness and "we'll call if we get an opening...." which never comes, or what?

im taking either blue collar or entry level white collar jobs and around mature older folkes
 
Old 03-22-2016, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,786 posts, read 2,637,951 times
Reputation: 3603
Quote:
Originally Posted by dAqS6R0gRQet View Post
...being away from any natural disasters...
Allow me to introduce you to the Wasatch Fault

Quote:
Originally Posted by dAqS6R0gRQet View Post
... and still inexpensive.
Home Prices - The Salt Lake Tribune

Honestly the LDS thing isn't terribly pervasive in Salt Lake County, as long as you were never associated with the group. If you were in Davis or Utah County, or if you're a former member it can be bad, but my observation is that Salt Lake County never-mos really don't have much of an issue with it.

Just... don't get this idea that SLC is inexpensive or that there are no natural disasters, because if you want to live in a nice or even middle-class neighborhood of SLC, you'll pay a premium. And as a former Los Angeleno, I can assure you that earthquakes are terrifying. SLC will only experience a major (7.0+) one every couple hundred years, but the potential is there. Also, floods are a rare thing, but they happen too, just due to climate and geographical factors, but no where near the level of flooding you'd see in the Lower Midwest
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