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Is any of this really not obvious? -- not littered all over the board already? There are heaps of threads about 'will I fit in' in regard to race, religion, and practically anything else that could make someone stick out. I don't know why on earth you thought it would be an easy transition...you're obviously not going to be happy.
This is a good reply. This is what I want to hear...an opposing view. I'm open for discussion...thanks for being honest. A couple of things:
I did my research and knew it wouldn't be easy, but I'm so focused on why I came here (specialized job training) that I would not let anything stop me. However, I had NO IDEA what to expect...and this is simply my take and my experience in the 4 weeks that I have been here. Also, I'm not unhappy as I'm surrounded by God's work & natural beauty....no man can take that away.
In regard to people reacting to me because they mostly see how Blacks are portrayed on TV is a GREAT point, and until now I had not really thought about it.
I really don't think I've seen 5 interracial couples, it was just a small number. Probably more like 3. But who cares...just an observance as I've seen interracial couples start threads in regard to this subject...and I'm trying to help.
I didn't call people racist left and right, don't exaggerate for effect. I mentioned racism and provided some examples.
"Don't think consciously about race" As I stated, I lived in the Appalachian Mountains, which had about the same percentage of Blacks and you know what I learned? It's easy NOT to be conscious of your race and other people's race, but the moment you push is out of your psyche....BAMMM...somebody reminds you. So one must remain prepared....hope for the best, but expect the worst...that's what a soldier does.
I have not been bitter and resentful about the people who distance themselves from me on the sidewalk and I cannot forget about it.....I'm just pointing it out as it is strange in 2013 in a city with metro population of over 2 million...in the US....
Never did I say people treat me poorly. Maybe I miscommunicated. They're just not receptive and there's no sense of hospitality to me. I explained that I grew up in NC.
I'm not going to treat ANYONE poorly...I'll just keep to myself if it was that bad. I need God and karma on my side.
Making excuses for myself....Playing the victim card...what are you talking about? Where am I playing the victim? I'm just stating my experience in the 4 weeks that I have lived here. Nobody's crying...just giving my opinion which might actually help somebody.
I'm trying to educate myself about the people as I've read as much as I can stand from the book of mormon on various websites. I watch the informative series "History of the Saints" and others. I'm not going to sit in a state of ignorance...I could have done that back home. I'm looking for understanding ANYWHERE that I go...you don't have to try to make me to be some ignorant person. I'm a truth seeker without your guidance.
What am I misinformed about LDS beliefs, history, and practices? Please correct me where I'm wrong. People might actually learn something. Don't hold back because I am sure there are many misinformed people out there. Here's your chance to educate us.
And finally, of course I'm very sensitive and aware of my race and others. I already pointed it out. That's what happens when you're the underdog looking up, my friend. People of ANY GROUP in ANY SITUATION of competition will strive to attain and maintain power and control....I understand that. I understand your perspective. I understand WHY you DON'T understand MY perspective...which is just an opinion.
Everything you have said is INDICATIVE of a person on the TOP looking DOWN. You began by trying to diminish my experiences by saying "you didn't understand why I didn't expect it," and "there are heaps of threads littered on the forum." I could have said, "those blank gonna be acting like blank when I get to blank Utah"...is that what you would have done?? I'm not naturally prejudiced so I'm not programmed to think like that. I know what I've seen on TV but remember that great point that you made earlier?
Next time, if I'm misinformed about anything, please enlighten me. Spend your time elaborating on what you think someone said wrong and why you believe it's wrong. Try to help them understand without bashing them. Don't twist words for effect. Don't diminish my perspective, or my documentation of it...that's oppressive.
That is a lot of discussion about the evils of racism from someone who can't tell if there are gangs in SLC or not, but he "won't rub any Hispanics or Polynesians the wrong way, that's for sure."
Oh, the irony.
But the comments about the LDS church's worship of the PROFIT are definitely astute!
In regards to naive people, I was astounded when my podiatrist, an educated man perhaps 60 y/o and LDS, asked "Other religions don't baptize the dead?" He was entirely serious. I hope my face was neutral when I told him that AFAIK, only the LDS have that practice.
Many people I knew had never traveled outside the state. There did seem to be a self-centeredness, if that is the right word, among the older and less-educated people. Certainly not among most of those who I knew well.
As an older, handicapped, white woman, not LDS (obvious when I walked around with a Starbucks cup or wore a cross or dressed a bit more colorfully than the average), I sometimes got the odd look, faintly disapproving, from people in the workplace who didn't know me.
I think it is more the lack of exposure and experience of a lot of the populace. But then, I have never been shadowed for "shopping while black" or stopped for "driving while black" so what do I know?
This is a good reply. This is what I want to hear...an opposing view. I'm open for discussion...thanks for being honest. A couple of things:
I did my research and knew it wouldn't be easy, but I'm so focused on why I came here (specialized job training) that I would not let anything stop me. However, I had NO IDEA what to expect...and this is simply my take and my experience in the 4 weeks that I have been here. Also, I'm not unhappy as I'm surrounded by God's work & natural beauty....no man can take that away.
In regard to people reacting to me because they mostly see how Blacks are portrayed on TV is a GREAT point, and until now I had not really thought about it.
I really don't think I've seen 5 interracial couples, it was just a small number. Probably more like 3. But who cares...just an observance as I've seen interracial couples start threads in regard to this subject...and I'm trying to help.
I didn't call people racist left and right, don't exaggerate for effect. I mentioned racism and provided some examples.
"Don't think consciously about race" As I stated, I lived in the Appalachian Mountains, which had about the same percentage of Blacks and you know what I learned? It's easy NOT to be conscious of your race and other people's race, but the moment you push is out of your psyche....BAMMM...somebody reminds you. So one must remain prepared....hope for the best, but expect the worst...that's what a soldier does.
I have not been bitter and resentful about the people who distance themselves from me on the sidewalk and I cannot forget about it.....I'm just pointing it out as it is strange in 2013 in a city with metro population of over 2 million...in the US....
Never did I say people treat me poorly. Maybe I miscommunicated. They're just not receptive and there's no sense of hospitality to me. I explained that I grew up in NC.
I'm not going to treat ANYONE poorly...I'll just keep to myself if it was that bad. I need God and karma on my side.
Making excuses for myself....Playing the victim card...what are you talking about? Where am I playing the victim? I'm just stating my experience in the 4 weeks that I have lived here. Nobody's crying...just giving my opinion which might actually help somebody.
I'm trying to educate myself about the people as I've read as much as I can stand from the book of mormon on various websites. I watch the informative series "History of the Saints" and others. I'm not going to sit in a state of ignorance...I could have done that back home. I'm looking for understanding ANYWHERE that I go...you don't have to try to make me to be some ignorant person. I'm a truth seeker without your guidance.
What am I misinformed about LDS beliefs, history, and practices? Please correct me where I'm wrong. People might actually learn something. Don't hold back because I am sure there are many misinformed people out there. Here's your chance to educate us.
And finally, of course I'm very sensitive and aware of my race and others. I already pointed it out. That's what happens when you're the underdog looking up, my friend. People of ANY GROUP in ANY SITUATION of competition will strive to attain and maintain power and control....I understand that. I understand your perspective. I understand WHY you DON'T understand MY perspective...which is just an opinion.
Everything you have said is INDICATIVE of a person on the TOP looking DOWN. You began by trying to diminish my experiences by saying "you didn't understand why I didn't expect it," and "there are heaps of threads littered on the forum." I could have said, "those blank gonna be acting like blank when I get to blank Utah"...is that what you would have done?? I'm not naturally prejudiced so I'm not programmed to think like that. I know what I've seen on TV but remember that great point that you made earlier?
Next time, if I'm misinformed about anything, please enlighten me. Spend your time elaborating on what you think someone said wrong and why you believe it's wrong. Try to help them understand without bashing them. Don't twist words for effect. Don't diminish my perspective, or my documentation of it...that's oppressive.
Stay cool
Great post and a great response. I'm as white bread as they come, but i've experienced the sidewalk avoidance thing and stupid 'street' racism too - in Japan. I've had taxis speed off when the saw I was a gaijin and people head across the street cause I'm big and WHITE (6'2", 200 lbs, a giant over there). It didn't bother me much, just made me think what narrow, provincial people they were. And so it is in UT I guess. Too bad for the Utards that behave that way. But too bad too for the apologists that seem willing to so quickly segue into a subtle blame-the-victim tone.
I'm curious what you could disagree with. The OP seems to be relating his personal experience.
In my personal experience, some of his opinions/experiences I agree (or can relate to) with and others I do not. Just like others who posted prior to me.
In my personal experience, some of his opinions/experiences I agree (or can relate to) with and others I do not. Just like others who posted prior to me.
And to say it more clearly: Unless you're willing to tell us which opinions/experiences your comment isn't very illuminating. I was hoping to learn something.
We tend to generalize from a sample size of 1 a bit too far. Our impressions of the world we live in, people we interact with etc. vary a great deal. What is friendly for one person might be superficial to others. Everyone's perspective is valid, but it is worth noting that it is one person - and even that may change as the same person my change his/her own mind.
I am a non-white part of an interracial international couple. We moved to SLC last year and our perspective differs a great deal from the OP. I definitely do not consider race to be a key factor in my interactions, though have a very sensitive nose and little tolerance for any signs of racial difference. I have not had a single situation where I felt it to be an issue. Most people I have met are very nice and welcoming. We still do not have close friends, but hopefully that will come with time. We do know at least 5 interracial couples and at least one white couple with an adopted African American child. May be we are simply not as perceptive as the OP, but we definitely do not find diversity and race to be a big issue.
Our impressions are nothing but positive. Like I said, most people are nice; the only poor interactions I have noticed are on the roads. The whole LDS thing is a non-topic for us. As long as people as well-behaved towards each other and the environment, what religion they practice is their business. [BTW, I am an atheist, and have equal indifference towards all religions.] If anything, I am a forever amazed and disappointed that people feel free to bring up the Mormon faith in conversation as a pejorative on these boards when the same people would not say anything so direct about, say, someone's race, or say about a different faith. I wonder why that is...
The only thing that bothers us is the conservative politics of the state. For a state that gets so much from its environment, its politicians could be a bit more protective about it. But, my (one and only) favorite Republican - Jon Huntsman - came from this state, so may be there is hope.
At the end of the day, I find that what you see in others is in part a reflection of yourself. With age, as I mellow down a bit - I view others more positively.
PS: All the talk about friendliness difference across states, I have yet to find them. On surface interaction level - I have found no real difference between Ithaca - NY, Philadelphia, Northampton-MA, Boston, Cincinnati-OH and now SLC. If anything, I would put SLC high on the friendliness in routine interaction. Making friends is a different proposition - and it means different things to different people. We are still figuring it out on this front here. It does not help that only my wife works locally and I commute to work in England.
That is a lot of discussion about the evils of racism from someone who can't tell if there are gangs in SLC or not, but he "won't rub any Hispanics or Polynesians the wrong way, that's for sure."
Oh, the irony.
Good point and well put!
For further elaboration, I do not look down my nose or think that I am superior to them or put 10ft between us on the sidewalk. I'm not adverse to marrying a Hispanic or Polynesian and having kids. I just wouldn't walk up to one and ask him where I can find some weed. So, I think it's different - but thanks for giving me a chance to clean that up.
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For further elaboration, I do not look down my nose or think that I am superior to them or put 10ft between us on the sidewalk. I'm not adverse to marrying a Hispanic or Polynesian and having kids. I just wouldn't walk up to one and ask him where I can find some weed. So, I think it's different - but thanks for giving me a chance to clean that up.
