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Old 06-17-2018, 06:43 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,540 posts, read 6,365,440 times
Reputation: 3023

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_data View Post
Is there an area outside of the basin that has lesser inversions?
yes, pretty much anywhere outside the basin. Do a search. This has been beaten to death.
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Slc
56 posts, read 204,454 times
Reputation: 26
Default Inversion

Just yesterday I asked two people to turn their cars off. No cares , it doesn’t even occur to people. Honestly people are self severing and lazy. Because of the geography of slc being in a valley there would have to be some major transportation and lifestyle changes that most people are not willing to do. So the inversion isn’t going to get better.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:08 AM
 
Location: God's Gift to Mankind for flying anything
5,796 posts, read 12,780,264 times
Reputation: 4859
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowstorm View Post
So the inversion isn’t going to get better.
Inversion, due to the geographical system, is really not going away.
We will always have some inversions when the ambient conditions are "just right"!

What makes it worse is the pollution created by "mankind".
That problem can be solved some way or another if we really want to fix it.

Inversions are not man-made!
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:12 PM
 
260 posts, read 203,488 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
Everyone here will surely agree that the inversion problem is serious and shows no signs of getting better. I've been simply amazed at how much reporting there is on inversions yet how little one sees about meaningful action beyond feel-good stuff that tinkers at the margins (no idling, denouncing fixed sources that are actually only a fraction of the problem, etc.).

In that vein I've also wondered at why there seems to be zero discussion of adopting the California emission standards. If this had been done 15 years ago the inversion problems now would be a fraction of what they are. Yet you don't hear a peep. I spent a fair amount of time searching and found practically nothing, zero, about this as a long term means to improve matters. I did find one reference however, and it's about 20 years old! That's it, nothing more. If anybody else can find anything I'd love to see it.

The NE states did adopt the CA standards years ago and guess what? It made a huge difference. I lived there and I know. What is it about the culture and politics of Utah that resists easy and common sense fixes that have been proven to work elsewhere? To my total astonishment, until about a year ago there was a state law prohibiting the adoption of any environmental standards stronger than the EPA standards. Is hatred of regulations and government solutions so profound and ingrained that the body politic prefers to live with the problem instead of doing something about it? And doing something that can be done immediately at a cost of only a few hundred bucks for a new car? Apparently the answer is "yes" (unless it's about alcohol or weed).

I can only conclude that the state government is not really serious about improving the common good and everybody (except a few tree-huggers weirdos living in SLC) is just fine with that.
Is there something in the water?


I'm not sure if you fully comprehend the subject you're discussing. Prior to 2010, we had the same emissions standards as California. Not the same parts requirements, but the pollutants emitting from the tailpipes had the exact same standardized numbers measured in parts per million in order to pass the emissions test.

California has different emissions equipment, but they perform the same function as 49 state emissions components with the exception of having more precious metals in the catalytic converters which extend the lifespan of the devices, while other cars have additional emissions equipment added in like air injection, returnless fuel systems, sealed fuel tanks, etc. . So basically what that means is that both a California and Utah car will produce the same tailpipe emissions, but 15-20 years down the road, the Utah car will fail emissions sooner than the California car and will need new parts to pass.

After 2010, Utah upgraded their testing equipment while California (and Texas) are still using the same equipment that made it's debut in 1986. The only difference between the two is that Utah no longer does ASM (dynamometer) testing on vehicles 1995 & older, but everything else is pretty much the same. The ASM testing has the ability to measure nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions while Utah's current emissions test cannot, but the Utah testing now has stricter emissions numbers in order to pass.

So pretty much, we can adapt California emissions standards, but it's not going to change the air quality. And if we adapt California's procedural processes on how often vehicles get tested and emissions exemptions (I'm not going to explain this), our air quality would actually be worse off than it is now.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:35 PM
 
25 posts, read 26,516 times
Reputation: 25
Interesting about this. After looking at past AirNow maps, I guess we are used to it in SoCal...

https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=...8&calyear=2017
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:21 AM
 
9,164 posts, read 11,154,131 times
Reputation: 11968
As a former SLC resident and now in So Cal, I really think the air here in socal on a day to day basis is just downright horrible. It's awful. I miss the brilliant blue skies of SLC.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 12,586,726 times
Reputation: 15813
Quote:
Originally Posted by slomofo View Post
I'm not sure if you fully comprehend the subject you're discussing.
If you'll read a bit farther through the thread, most doubt will be eliminated.

At the same time, I believe the OP's purpose really didn't have anything to do with the thread title. I believe the OP's central thesis is The Culture and Politics of Utah are Things He Does Not Like.

If we could wave a magic wand and eliminate inversion layers or air pollution forever, it appears that would not have an impact on the OP's point of view, because, well, The Culture and Politics of Utah are Things He Just Does Not Like.

Inversion of the thermal lapse rate appears to be an excuse for the OP to whine about Utah's Culture and Politics.

I may be wrong, of course, in which case you are even more right than you might imagine.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 12,586,726 times
Reputation: 15813
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_data View Post
Is there an area outside of the basin that has lesser inversions?
Just head east on I-80 and go over Parley's. Pretty much anywhere east of Parley's has (relatively) clean air. That's one of the reasons many people like to live in Park City even if they commute down to SLC.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,144 posts, read 21,433,866 times
Reputation: 14081
The problem will solve itself in a decade or 2, once electric vehicles make more sense than gas. Once there is no car exhaust and the oil refineries have folded it will be a different place during the winter.

It's not a pipe-dream or as far away as many people think; expect 100% EVs that can match the range of gas powered vehicles, that perform better, have better reliability and can be recharged just as fast as a gas tank can be filled. The tech is already in beta...
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:26 AM
 
25 posts, read 26,516 times
Reputation: 25
Except, most of the electricity comes from coal power plants, which have zero regulation on output gasses and thus 100 percent carbon emission goes into the air. Only nuclear has no operating emissions, and I don't know how much SLC power comes from nuclear.

Also, the amount of carbon that it takes to make a new electric car (from the factories, transportation of parts, feeding the workers, etc), is the same as driving a gas car 100,000 miles.

But at least these outputs are mostly not in SLC.
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