SLC quality of life on the decline? (St. George, Washington: real estate, rentals)

[manyroads]

Originally Posted by kavm

Thank you! I understand where you are coming from. I was pointing out an upsurge in the anti-immigrant narrative that is being pushed forcefully - some of it valid but a lot of it intended to incite an us-versus-them divisions. There are immigrants that bring vitality and contribute a great deal to the economy - locally and nationwide. My wife and I are immigrants and we contribute hundreds of thousands in taxes every year.

Sure there are immigrants that contribute less, but there are many non-immigrants that fall in that category too. You bring up California. Silicon Valley is full of immigrants that contribute a lot to it and the country. So, to suggest that California’s high taxes are a function of immigrants - legal or otherwise - is completely without basis. The whole ‘makers’ and ‘takers’ framing is very problematic, but I will refrain from getting into that as I do not wish to turn this into a political discussion any more than it has already has.

I suggest you think about how much you want to contribute to dividing the country. The immigrants who turn away or not come at all might well be what you call the ‘makers’. Speaking for ourselves, having legally immigrated and lived in this country for close to 40 years and contributing a great deal to the economy including multiple millions in taxes, we are considering emigrating to a less toxic environment and attitude. May be that will make America Great Again!

Please don't twist my words, kavm. As I said above, I am not anti-immigrant. I am of the opinion, though, that cities and states are better off financially when everyone who can work is working and contributing to the tax base, and that we should be aiming for a society where more people rely on themselves to take care of their needs, rather than looking to government for aid or handouts. I'm not singling out immigrants with this belief; it equally applies to those who have been living in our country their entire lives.

It sounds from what you've said above that you and your wife are an excellent example of the positive aspects of what legal immigration can do for the US.

The taker vs makers argument was made in a Forbes magazine article on what they called "death spiral states" (California was one of those on the top of that list). You can easily find that information by doing a quick Google search.

I also do not wish to turn this thread into more of a political discussion than it already has become, but I did feel a need to reply to your last statement as it bothers me when people misinterpret (intentionally or not) what I have written.

[Shellybug]

I'm a transplant from Florida living in SLC proper for a year. I am not LDS. No, it is not like Detroit here. It's actually a very charming city with higher crime neighborhoods, like EVERY city in the U.S..

To highlight:

-I have had no issues being non-LDS
-My husband, daughter, and I all found jobs with no issues
-I feel no fear and quite frankly haven't even noticed refugees living in our community; however, I come from South Florida where the population is very diverse and very celebrated, so I welcome it. Those "reviews" made it sound like a jihad is happening right here in SLC and a caliphate is being established. Please don't allow fear-mongering to take over your better judgement.
-Crime exists everywhere. I find it to be less of an issue here than most cities.
-I find my quality of life here to be increased considerably and my family and I are very happy here
-The people are nice
-The food, healthcare, and activities are excellent
-Outdoor activities are some of the best in the world

Yep, life is good here.

[CarpenterEagle]

I would have to completely disagree. Although I don't live in SLT, my wife and I visited and the downtown areas were FULL of homeless people, and what appeared to be very shady people. We did not experience this in some of the outlying cities though.

[CarpenterEagle]

Originally Posted by slomofo

When cities start changing from red to blue, things tend to go downhill pretty quickly. The two biggest things that happen are the homeless populations rise and the cost of living skyrockets.


People from California move to Utah for a better quality of life, but then they start complaining about how Utah isn't like California so they continue voting blue and doing everything they can to turn their new home into the place they left behind. Once that happens and they realize they've screwed the pooch, they move on to the next city and do the same thing.

I would absolutely agree with this. Spot on. Facts are easy to find and when red states turn blue, those states always decline.

[gambeloak]

Originally Posted by CarpenterEagle

I would have to completely disagree. Although I don't live in SLT, my wife and I visited and the downtown areas were FULL of homeless people, and what appeared to be very shady people. We did not experience this in some of the outlying cities though.

This is true for most places - homelessness is concentrated in urban areas as opposed to suburban or rural areas. SLC does have some major issues with homelessness but I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare it to its suburbs.

Originally Posted by CarpenterEagle

I would absolutely agree with this. Spot on. Facts are easy to find and when red states turn blue, those states always decline.

Oh please. SLC has had a Democratic mayor since 1976. The liberal majority in SLC isn't new, and it certainly isn't the fault of Californians. When a state changes from red to blue, it's usually because the population of the state becomes more urbanized, which leads to changes, and as other posters have mentioned, change is scary.

[h_scott]

I'd like to add two points to this discussion. The first involves crime statistics. There is a challenge for most of us to interpret official crime statistics (I'm not referring to reviews or opinions). The reason is that city's can have an impact on the reported data. This is not always a negative thing. For example if a City decides to crack down on crime it will likely result in reports of higher than usual number of crimes. This can result in an improvement in the quality of life in a city but will be reflected poorly when their higher crime numbers are compared to other cities. Other cities could take a different tact. If they are concerned about a high number of crime reports they could conceivably reduce their crime fighting efforts in order to improve their statistics. As you can see it may not be such a good idea to compare crime statistics between cities.


My second comment is personal opinion based on experience. Salt Lake City proper has some challenges, notably homeless and negative impacts that follow. The good news is that the State, County and City are in the process of opening homeless resource centers to provide shelter and services to those of our neighbors in need. In my experience SLC is a relatively safe city to live and work in (I moved here from the east coast a few years ago). I have no hesitation walking in the city with my wife even at night. Every city has crime, but much can be done to avoid being a victim.

[apache67]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Oh, I get it! For once, it's not the Mormons' fault; it's the Californians' fault. So would you say the quotes given by the OP are accurate? Seriously?

Hint: this same pnenomenon (California liberal plague) occurs elsewhere too. It's not unique to SLC.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by apache67

Hint: this same pnenomenon (California liberal plague) occurs elsewhere too. It's not unique to SLC.

Can you please describe what this is exactly? Extra points if you can further explain how & why the allegedly failing, liberal blue states contribute more than their pro rata share to the federal govt which then redistributes funds to the freedom worshiping red states? And why those same red states have higher rates of divorce, poorer health, lower education rates and greater opioid use than the blue states?

[Montygirl]

Came in the summer and still a fantastic place to be, this post is a falsehood. Went downtown and walked around no issues. Yes changing demographic as in more multicultural and more of a mix of people. Great and a positive thing for the place unless you are anti immigrants and like other countries easy target when many non migrants don't work/contribute either and actually those who migrate to the area do alot of the lower paid jobs that others feel are beneath them!(sometimes more than one job)
Also visited New Orleans whilst back in the US and absolutely loved it. Amazing how the community has pulled together to rebuild the city after the hurricaine Katrina and we all enjoyed our time there as a family!

Detroit comment laughable ! homeless people are everywhere , the way of the world and the economic divide !

Think a ploy to keep people out. Some of my best friends are not only from Utah but California amongst other states

Area has not disintegrated, is growing yes, but so is everywhere and some hate change. Understandable with the amount of building going on downtown and out in the valleys etc but that's the way it goes ! We toroughly enjoyed seeing all our friends and enjoying the lovely Mumford and Sons concert outside at Usana !

[Code Stemi]

I would really love to move back to SLC but my profession pays pennies up there. (nursing). I feel like the main industry up there that pays well is tech and computer science (besides the obvious ones such as physician, lawyer, etc.). I remember a friend who is a software engineer for adobe in lehi told me his starting salary was 95K as a new graduate. I was like, wow.