Is Ogden the worst city in Utah when it comes to crime? (Salt Lake City: crime rates, how much)

[lolperson121]

Im from Ogden and I've always noticed how Ogden has gotten such a bad reputation across the state, but do you believe that its true? =/

[Lamborgotti]

Actually, the first time I ever heard Ogden had lots of crime was about a year ago, from the news (they just mentioned it was a common perception). I had never heard that before, but since then, I've noticed that a lot of people (usually old folks) have that old fashioned perception. One of the problems, I think, is that people mix Ogden up with Riverdale. I drove through Riverdale last week and honestly didn't even think there were neighborhoods that sketchy in Utah, so the rate doesn't surprise me. However, SoSaLa and SLC still have the most crime:


^FBI crime stats, I don't have the link.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by Lamborgotti

Actually, the first time I ever heard Ogden had lots of crime was about a year ago, from the news (they just mentioned it was a common perception). I had never heard that before, but since then, I've noticed that a lot of people (usually old folks) have that old fashioned perception. One of the problems, I think, is that people mix Ogden up with Riverdale. I drove through Riverdale last week and honestly didn't even think there were neighborhoods that sketchy in Utah, so the rate doesn't surprise me. However, SoSaLa and SLC still have the most crime:


^FBI crime stats, I don't have the link.

Keep in mind that the stats in the graphic above are per 1,000 PEOPLE---not per 1,000 ADULTS or per 1,000 HOUSEHOLDS. So the areas with higher concentrations of large families (the suburbs) have more "people" in them, including children, who are not for the most part contributing to crime. That lowers their "per capita" crime significantly, just because each house may have 5 people in it instead of 1 or 2. This means that cities with more single people (Salt Lake City, primarily) will be skewed to look like there's more crime occurring than there really is.

For a true comparison, look for crime stats that are per person 18+ or per household (though per household brings its own statistical analysis intricacies, too).

[Lamborgotti]

Do you have any of those stats, or any evidence to show that it would indeed be drastically different (and if so, by how much?)? Perhaps the numbers are misleading, but the question is really of where the most crime is, not how many crimes there are. I'm pretty confident that Salt Lake and So. Salt Lake would still be where they are, even if children weren't counted, which is all people really care about. And if the same method is used to calculate the crime rates of other cities, then it's not as if Salt Lake has a disadvantage.

[Katzpur]

I think we also should be making a distinction between violent crimes and non-violent crimes. While there is no such thing as a "good" crime, grafiti and murder are hardly comparable.

[markg91359]

Im from Ogden and I've always noticed how Ogden has gotten such a bad reputation across the state, but do you believe that its true?

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Ogden does have a bad reputation among some. I hope someday the community turns around and becomes a great place again. There are some hopeful signs. I still find them too few and far between.

I grew up in the Ogden area as a child. Let me explain what I've seen in the last forty five years:

1. The virtual destruction of the downtown as a business district. There used to be thriving businesses all along Washington Boulevard. Today you see open spaces and a few institutions who sell second hand junk. During the 1960's and 1970's there were thriving department stores including ZCMI, Fred M. Nye Company, Penney's, and Castleton's. Ogden was the shopping center for Weber, North Davis and Box Elder County. Some people even came down from Idaho to shop here. What do we have now? Walmart?

2. Corporations have moved out. Ogden used to be the headquarters of the Thiokol Corporation and MTC Corporation. Both are gone now.

3. Decline of the Railroads. Ogden was a hub for passenger rail service from the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1869 until 1970 when the last private passenger trains ceased running. Freight operations have also changed considerably and the number of railroad workers in Ogden to manage freight operations is way down from where it used to be.

4. Heavy reliance upon government for employment. I dread to think what Ogden would be like without the extensive IRS operations on 12th Street and on Wall Avenue. Hill Air Force Base also has a positive effect on the Ogden economy. The federal building downtown on lower 25th Street and the Annex higher up on 25th Street employ a few hundred people as well. Without these establishments I suspect Ogden would be a ghost town.

5. There are two large centers for the homeless population located on Wall Avenue. Everytime I drive by, I see large populations standing in front of each one.

I made a number of unscientific observations over the years. I calculated that Ogden has a higher percentage of people living on social security, social security disability, a railroad pension, or a federal pension than most cities its size. What I seldom saw in Ogden was an entrepreneur or individual seeking to open up a respectable business. The dynamic is not a good one for the community. What you get are people who resist any efforts to raise bonds or taxes for urban renewal, community improvements, or even street and road repair work. You have a "let's just leave things the way they are" mentality which has resulted in much urban decay and deterioration over a long period of time. For example, the library is almost the same library that was built back in 1970 (39 years ago). I have also noticed that Ogden is a heavily "blue collar" community that doesn't tend to value education very much. The local schools are not good for a number of reasons.

Mayor Godfrey has tried hard to turn a really bad situation around. There are some hopeful signs where the Ogden Mall used to stand and along 25th Street. Keep in mind, though, the entire mall literally shut down before a decision was made to tear it down and build a new one. New businesses are opening. However, the area is still rather small and some of the businesses simply left a vacant building and moved from another location in Ogden. Mayor Godfrey has my support and my hopes. Sadly, the "Ogden mentality" is so deep rooted among some that his pursuit of change has offended many. Some may find my appraisal of Ogden to be too negative, prejudiced, or narrow. I assure you its the product of many years of observation of a disturbing, one-way, trend.

[Chango]

No, crime is far worse in SLC than Ogden. But O-town is a poor area so it gets shunned.

[dcisive]

As I've mentioned on other posts in the past, I work in the commercial security industry. I can tell you that indeed the greater Salt Lake area is by FAR much higher in both property crime as well as commercial crime. Much of the media tends to portray Ogden as a low class gang infested area, but frankly for all of those instances they have Salt Lake has several orders of magnitude WORSE in all areas of both crime and the demographics of it. That area does in fact also carry the stigma of having a lower standard of living due to, as previously mentioned, being on assistance in various areas such as retirement age folks.

On the other side of the coin however there are significant signs that quite a few corporations are moving both offices or warehouses to that area. I get business news as we are of course interested in securing new business, and there is a good number of companies moving there on the horizon (like within the next year). Those people will have to buy homes and shop somewhere, so lets hope it is locally for them.

[GlasirGirl]

Originally Posted by markg91359

1. The virtual destruction of the downtown as a business district.

2. Corporations have moved out.

3. Decline of the Railroads.

4. Heavy reliance upon government for employment. I dread to think what Ogden would be like without the extensive IRS operations on 12th Street and on Wall Avenue. Hill Air Force Base also has a positive effect on the Ogden economy. The federal building downtown on lower 25th Street and the Annex higher up on 25th Street employ a few hundred people as well. Without these establishments I suspect Ogden would be a ghost town.

These factors make me wonder... why is Ogden a popular destination for immigrants and asylum seekers?

[Chango]

Originally Posted by GlasirGirl

These factors make me wonder... why is Ogden a popular destination for immigrants and asylum seekers?

Because it is cheap and far away?