What do you guys think of this situation? (Justifiable force or cop rage in Leon Valley?) (Victoria: price, safe)

[Merovee]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Really? And had another vehicle clipped the back of their car (which was clearly in the traffic lane), THEN what?

Road flares.

The main issue for some is going to remain that instead of either helping push the vehicle off the lane or employing safety road flares that the the economic opportunity for the city was of seemingly greater interest.

[ItsTheTruth]

Originally Posted by LexiloosMom

You think the police only have a "perceived sense of authority"?

Good luck with the jail, the judge and the lawsuit. I'm pretty sure you'll be on the losing end of that one, especially if that is the attitude you show to the police.

Been there, done that. Many times. I've beaten every single ticket I've had in court. Have you ever dealt with a judge? They don't power trip like common cops. They're fair and impartial for the most part. They're not looking for an extra revenue stream.

[ItsTheTruth]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

This comment does nothing more than illustrate not only your juvenile attitude, but your complete and total lack of knowledge, maturity and judgement. I would love to see you ride along with some of these PD's to learn for yourself not only just what the job entails, but also the day-to-day requirements of the job. I've worn a badge, and am SO glad I do so no longer, because it's not only a thankless job most days, many of those you encounter will lie to you even though the truth is obvious.

When an officer is shot or killed, it's because they screwed up, either in their threat assessment or in the execution of their procedures. Either way, they're *dead* - and there's no going back. A perp doesn't care what city they might work for - if he's in the way and they want out bad enough, they'll pull the trigger. Try adding THAT to YOUR daily job, my friend.

This woman wasn't a criminal. She was a citizen in need of assistance. Until you can realize the difference, you're proof of why these stereotypes exist against cops. She wasn't a threat. She wasn't going to kill him. If his threat assessment is that off, he needs a new career.

[ItsTheTruth]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

She ABSOLUTELY broke the law. Period. Get that into your head. Right or wrong, that is the procedure/policy/law - if an officer tells you to get out of your car, you are to do so. If he tells you it will be towed, it should be towed. Interferring with an officer in the performance of his duties is a violation of law. Proving he was wrong is done in court, NOT on the side of the street. The ONLY thing the officer screwed up on is by not arresting her - but he was TRYING to be decent, even after her blatant disobedience and resistance.

No. A cop is allowed to ask you to step out of the vehicle during the investigation of a traffic offense, not because a tow truck arrived. You are not to blindly perform whatever a cop tells you. She was not under arrest.

You're right about one part though. She should have let him pull her out by her hair and arrest her. I would love a lawsuit like that.

[LexiloosMom]

Originally Posted by Merovee

Most people show respect to the police.

The problem is perhaps some are unable to differentiate that at times some police do make unreasonable requests that will have consequences if followed, when you know in your full judgment they are wrong, and they can be respectfully challenged.

She did not move so it would not be towed. She stood her ground and won. She did nothing criminal or disrespectful.

She was disrespectful of the police officer by refusing to get out of the vehicle at his request. His job is public safety -- not just "her" safety -- but others as well. If the officer, in his judgment as a trained professional, felt her vehicle was a road hazard he had EVERY right to have the vehicle towed and request she get out of the vehicle. You speak of the officer putting "monetary" reasons (i.e., your continued assumption that the department gets a kick-back from the towing companies), yet her own stated reasons for refusing to exit the vehicle were monetary in nature.

I do not understand the warnings of 'good luck with the jail, the judge and the lawsuit' when we have clearly seen that standing up for your rights does allow you to win.

The warning of "good luck with the jail, etc." was in direct reply to another poster stating they would refuse to submit to the police officer's "perceived authority" and would take their chances with jail, judge and lawsuit. And, standing up for your rights is one thing -- disrespecting the law and those who uphold it is something else entirely, which is what we have here.

Allowing her car to be towed would have been an injustice she saved herself from.

What injustice? Having her car towed to get it out of the way was not an injustice, it was a judgment call made by a police officer doing his job to promote the safety of others.

Good luck with the public, the press, and the lawsuit. I'm pretty sure officers who act like this will be on the losing end of that one, especially if that is the attitude they show to the public.

What attitude is that? The police officer's right to enforce the duties placed upon him?

Originally Posted by Merovee

The only problem is she was a stranded motorist in need of assistance and not a perp in need of harassment. The only crime some see here is assault on her person.

She was not being place under arrest. She was not resisting arrest. All this talk of she could have been placed under arrest tells me one thing. That some would be willing to bend the law and arrest someone on false charges, apply the law how it is not meant to be used in other words. She was going to be tazed just so she could have her vehicle towed. That is what is unacceptable to some. Just because he could have turned it around and then arrested her for resisting and did not shows he does have some integrity, it is just a tow after all, not worth all the effort, and this is why I wonder if it is Leon Valley policy to not help and tow instead.

I hope that these PDs do not find their job so thankless and demanding that they put on blinders and would actually begin to see everyone as perps in need of harsh treatment.

We respect the job of the police and the police. When one officer begins to harass citizens though as in this case the public is not going to respect that. Simple.

There was no respect for the police officer evident here. This woman disrespected the police officer. Your post shows that you are going to equate the police officer doing his job with harassment of citizens.

It's unfortunate that in today's society people only want the law enforced as long as it isn't being enforced upon them. The very idea that you or anyone else thinks this woman "fought for her rights" and won does a grave injustice to all of us who DO obey and respect the law.

[RodLu]

Sure, logically this is a different case.....a most different case, among thousands and thousands.....




But I dare slightly-mention another famous case once upon a time when a certain woman refused to obey the land's observed 'Establishment' customs of Institutionalized Oppression which others never even thought to question.....and it was about Fairness, and Unfairness..... {and this is one of those 'Hmmmmm.....' moments one should hopefully figure out on one's own so it will do no good to even bother to ask me about what case I am thinking about because then that will only defeat the purpose}




Anyway, in time things snowballed {much to the chagrin of many} and eventually CHANGE HAPPENED for the better {much to the joy of many}.




These.....things.....do.....happen.




This *is* An Age Of Mass Media, whether one likes it or not. There *MUST* be a Perpetual Counterbalance, because if Certain Voices do not speak out then Other Voices most certainly will not.....




"The Media Is Almost Like A Fourth Branch Of Government, helping in with the checks and balances of power." -something I heard once on PBS









P.S. And oh, by the way: I am quite sure that there are *some* lawyers and Police Chiefs who actually themselves *know* that they do not know EVERYTHING in the whole wide perpetually-evolving universe.....and even less of them who will actually even admit their own personal shortcomings, of course.....


But eventually obsolete laws get repealed.....and other like things do inevitably occur anyway.....{Jury Nullification: gotta love it!}




"Changing people's attitudes about stigma is very difficult work." -Richard Gere

[majormadmax]

Originally Posted by ItsTheTruth

No. A cop is allowed to ask you to step out of the vehicle during the investigation of a traffic offense, not because a tow truck arrived. You are not to blindly perform whatever a cop tells you. She was not under arrest.

You're right about one part though. She should have let him pull her out by her hair and arrest her. I would love a lawsuit like that.

Honestly, for someone who claims to know the law, you sure don't seem to!

[LexiloosMom]

Originally Posted by RodLu

Sure, logically this is a different case.....a most different case, among thousands and thousands.....

But I dare slightly-mention another famous case once upon a time when a certain woman refused to obey the land's observed 'Establishment' customs of Institutionalized Oppression which others never even thought to question.....and it was about Fairness, and Unfairness..... {and this is one of those 'Hmmmmm.....' moments one should hopefully figure out on one's own so it will do no good to even bother to ask me about what case I am thinking about because then that will only defeat the purpose}

Anyway, in time things snowballed {much to the chagrin of many} and eventually CHANGE HAPPENED for the better {much to the joy of many}.

These.....things.....do.....happen.

"Changing people's attitudes about stigma is very difficult work." -Richard Gere

You cannot possibly be equating this incident to Rosa Parks! Gimme a break! You are talking about apples and oranges and any attempt to equate this woman's total lack of regard for police authority with Rosa Parks standing up for her civil rights is absolutely ridiculous and belittles what Ms. Parks did.

This was NOT about civil rights it was about a woman refusing to do as she was told by a police officer and interfering with him executing his duties.

I am white AND I am totally offended that you would even put this woman in the same league as Rosa Parks!!

[LexiloosMom]

Originally Posted by ItsTheTruth

No. A cop is allowed to ask you to step out of the vehicle during the investigation of a traffic offense, not because a tow truck arrived. You are not to blindly perform whatever a cop tells you. She was not under arrest.

You're right about one part though. She should have let him pull her out by her hair and arrest her. I would love a lawsuit like that.

She did commit a traffic offense -- the back end of her vehicle was inhibiting the flow of traffic and causing a dangerous situation. The officer was just polite enough to allow her to stay in the vehicle (not to mention give her time to notify her fiance that a tow truck was on the way), until the tow truck arrived.

She should have let him pull her out and arrest her -- absolutely. I would love a lawsuit like that too, because I would have loved seeing her spend time in jail for breaking the law.

By the way, I have dealt with plenty of judges, I'm a paralegal.

[ItsTheTruth]

Originally Posted by majormadmax

Honestly, for someone who claims to know the law, you sure don't seem to!

38.15. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES. (a) A person commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with: (1) a peace officer while the peace officer is performing a duty or exercising authority imposed or granted by law;

What duty was the officer performing? He wasn't giving her a ticket. He wasn't arresting her. He didn't have a search warrant for her vehicle.