SA Cornerstone Church (house, shop, moving)

[doss1]

Here's a youtube link:
YouTube - John MacArthur Explains True Gospel (he's on the left side, not the priest)

[banker]

John MacArthur is a very Godly man. I have met him. He has a big church in Southern California. He also has a college and seminary. My parents actually have masters degrees from the college he founded. In fact our pastor graduated from Masters Seminary - the seminary associated with John MacArthur. He has a church just as big as Hagee but makes about $250,000...which in California is like making $150,000 here. So he pulls in 1/10th the salary of Hagee - but actually gives more back through his church, Grace to you radio program, college and Seminary.

[Turtle_Mom]

I just had to add something, even though I was going to stay out of this debate. I drove by the church the other day and something struck me - the signs say "Cornerstone Church - Pastor John C Hagee" I don't know, but to me the name of the pastor doesn't really matter, it's God's word they are teaching. It seems like people worship the man more than the Diety. I also don't understand why more churches don't use Christ's name in them - how are you to know they are of Christian denomination? I had heard about Max Lucado taking Christ off the name of his church to make it less intimidating. What is intimidating about Christ - He is who we are going there for, right?

/soapbox

ETA: Found the link about why he changed the name - Baptist Press - Max Lucado transcends Church of Christ beliefs - News with a Christian Perspective

[banker]

Originally Posted by Turtle_Mom

I just had to add something, even though I was going to stay out of this debate. I drove by the church the other day and something struck me - the signs say "Cornerstone Church - Pastor John C Hagee" I don't know, but to me the name of the pastor doesn't really matter, it's God's word they are teaching. It seems like people worship the man more than the Diety. I also don't understand why more churches don't use Christ's name in them - how are you to know they are of Christian denomination? I had heard about Max Lucado taking Christ off the name of his church to make it less intimidating. What is intimidating about Christ - He is who we are going there for, right?

/soapbox

ETA: Found the link about why he changed the name - Baptist Press - Max Lucado transcends Church of Christ beliefs - News with a Christian Perspective

I really like Max Lucado. While they did drop Christ from their name - it was more to disassociate themselves from the Church of Christ denomination. They still preach the gospel and are very much Bible based. They are not ashamed of the name of Christ if that is what you are thinking.

Since we have been talking about John Hagee and his $1,000,000 salary - I think it is interesting that Max Lucado doesn't take a Salary. What a contrast between two men - both authors and both leaders of very large churches. The contrast should be enlightening to those that continue to fund Hagee's lavish lifestyle. While one pastor (Hagee) goes to great lengths to hide his million dollar salary from the public - the other (Lucado) goes to great lenghts to show the world he draws no salary from the Church.

They both have book revenues (which are seperate from Hagee's million dollar salary) - yet one is taking as much as possible from the church. Really sad.

[JNA]

Originally Posted by TexasNick

Anyone heard of John MacArthur? I think that's the real deal, imho.

I used to go to Grace Community Church in CA about 5 years ago. He is a great expository teacher! I still have a few friends from the church and visit a couple of websites with his sermons/devotionals. He has a very interesting take on Christian giving as opposed to tithing.

[mastercone]

You conveniently left out the fact that Max lives in a million dollar plus home that's all paid for ostensibly with his book sale proceeds. Both of these guys are living opulently. Biblically speaking, is there one type of rich man that deserves to go to heaven over another rich man?

[quote=banker;1331939]I really like Max Lucado........Since we have been talking about John Hagee and his $1,000,000 salary - I think it is interesting that Max Lucado doesn't take a Salary. What a contrast between two men - both authors and both leaders of very large churches. The contrast should be enlightening to those that continue to fund Hagee's lavish lifestyle. While one pastor (Hagee) goes to great lengths to hide his million dollar salary from the public - the other (Lucado) goes to great lenghts to show the world he draws no salary from the Church.

[banker]

[quote=mastercone;2082452]You conveniently left out the fact that Max lives in a million dollar plus home that's all paid for ostensibly with his book sale proceeds. Both of these guys are living opulently. Biblically speaking, is there one type of rich man that deserves to go to heaven over another rich man?

Originally Posted by banker

I really like Max Lucado........Since we have been talking about John Hagee and his $1,000,000 salary - I think it is interesting that Max Lucado doesn't take a Salary. What a contrast between two men - both authors and both leaders of very large churches. The contrast should be enlightening to those that continue to fund Hagee's lavish lifestyle. While one pastor (Hagee) goes to great lengths to hide his million dollar salary from the public - the other (Lucado) goes to great lenghts to show the world he draws no salary from the Church.

There is nothing wrong with having nice things. Max Lucado earns a lot of money from his work - books, etc. Not from fleecing his congregation. All American's are much wealthier than the rest of the world - so we should be careful to pick on "rich" folks here in the States. It is all relative.

My big problem with people like Hagee and Rick Godwin at cornerstone and other prosperity gospel preachers is that they use the Bible and their church to make money and fleece the people sitting under their teaching. Max Lucado does not do that.

[mastercone]

You missed my point. I agree with your assertions concerning Hagee & Godwin. Hawkins & others should easily qualify as well. But you seem to be advancing the notion that Max Lucado is a sinless, more perfect millionaire lifestyle preacher.

My personal benchmark is Billy Graham. Being a preacher confers certain privileges in society, one being the ability to easily solicit tithes and offerings from your flock in the name of God. Do Lucado's books sell because he is a bookwriter or a preacher? There is a difference. Does Lucado plug his books from the pulpit? This is tantamount to Hagee saying his huge ranch west of us is actually a summer Bible school camp even though it serves more nicely as a weekend retreat for him and his family throughout the year. One begats the other is my point.

I'm not saying Lucado is in the same mix as the others, but he has taken great care to publicly separate himself from the infamous others even though his lifestyle resembles that of the wealthy.

While we're at it, can you show me in the Bible where it says it's okay for a Man of God or one of His teachers to live richly sharing His word even if it is through books? The Gideons could learn a lot from this.

Originally Posted by banker

You conveniently left out the fact that Max lives in a million dollar plus home that's all paid for ostensibly with his book sale proceeds. Both of these guys are living opulently.

Biblically speaking, is there one type of rich man that deserves to go to heaven over another rich man?

There is nothing wrong with having nice things. Max Lucado earns a lot of money from his work - books, etc. Not from fleecing his congregation. All American's are much wealthier than the rest of the world - so we should be careful to pick on "rich" folks here in the States. It is all relative.

My big problem with people like Hagee and Rick Godwin at cornerstone and other prosperity gospel preachers is that they use the Bible and their church to make money and fleece the people sitting under their teaching. Max Lucado does not do that.

[Lostball]

I wonder how many of these TV evangelists would be "in the business" if they did not make any money at all and lived in a second floor one bedroom apartment, drove a 10 year old vehicle, wore clothes that were a few years old, and had to subsist on soup and sandwiches?
The very name of Mr. Hagee's "show" turns me off .. "John Hagee Today", give me a break!
I heard him one evening say this: "HEB, means Hagees Eat Better". I couldn't believe what I had just heard. And then I think of all the starving and hurting people not only here in our own good ole US of A but all around the world.
Mr. Hagee falsely teaches that "poverty is a curse". I guess in this light, all poor people are cursed of God, and conversly all rich people are blessed by God.
Stop sending your money to these TV hucksters and take care of your own family, friends, neighbors and other hurting people in your community.

[Buffyfan]

I've heard better things about Community Bible Church near Stone Oak. Haggee is a bit of a doomsdayer. He concentrates too much on the "end times" to me.