Bar linked to fatal crashes gets stiff penalty (Howe: home, buy)

[majormadmax]

Originally Posted by MattTx

Can we leave speeding out of this one? Please?

Even I am tired of every law related thread turning into a speeding debate. I am over it.

Sorry, but the comparison is valid; nobody wants to be accountable for their mistakes, there's always someone else to blame!

Originally Posted by rd2007

Does anybody know there's a multi-quote button?

and you know damn well I'm all about personal accountability and you also probably know I'm all for on-the-spot executions of DUI offenders (blowing into a breathalyzer connected to a shotgun sound familiar?) I've made that abundantly clear many times, so don't even try that crap on me, please.
I support ANYTHING that makes life a living hell for drunk drivers and that includes the institutions and people that support them. As long as we allow them to continue living and going about their merry way, they'll never learn and people like my wife and kids are running the chances of getting executed by them just by simply being on the same road. Now I could be as ridiculous as some are being here and ask you if you're willing to risk your family's lives for these people, but I know that's a STUPID question and a STUPID comparison...

edit- forgot to ask this earlier.. do you all whine about airport inspections too? Do you think you have the right to fly as well? I just made 7 flights in less than two weeks and had to go through security at every one of them. Am I a criminal or did I give them any reason to suspect me? Of course not. But that's how it is, thanks to a few idiots that can't play by the rules. I suppose some of you think we should just stop all that security stuff because it's not fair to punish everyone for the stupidity of a few.. On my flight out of Seoul Incheon, they even had the nerve to check us once again at the gate prior to boarding the plane. Was it a bit of a hassle? Of course. But the plane made it to Seattle in one piece and all of us got to where we wanted to be. The ends justified the means once again. Funny how that always happens...

Truth is that both DUI checkpoints and airport security measures have been proven not to have an impact on the issue they are addressing.

Instead, it's all about appearances, people would rather accept measures they think are being effective even when they aren't to real solutions that require some work (and costs) to implement.

It's easy to blame the bar for some idiot's bad decision to drink and drive, but we all know that there are numerous ways a person can get intoxicated and the next thing we should be seeing is HEB being fined the TABC for selling alcohol to someone who later consumed it and then drove drunk. It's ridiculous, and instead of encouraging such responses people need to be talking with their elected officials at their disappointment at a lack of true measures to combat the issue. Of course, that may mean the increase in resources to do so, and an increase in taxes to pay for it, which will only lead to more complaining!

Once again everybody wants a solution but no one will want to pay for it!

But issuing fines to bars for selling alcohol (especially after charging them for the right to do so!) is ridiculous.

[Verio]

Originally Posted by rd2007

Does anybody know there's a multi-quote button?

and you know damn well I'm all about personal accountability and you also probably know I'm all for on-the-spot executions of DUI offenders (blowing into a breathalyzer connected to a shotgun sound familiar?) I've made that abundantly clear many times, so don't even try that crap on me, please.
I support ANYTHING that makes life a living hell for drunk drivers and that includes the institutions and people that support them. As long as we allow them to continue living and going about their merry way, they'll never learn and people like my wife and kids are running the chances of getting executed by them just by simply being on the same road. Now I could be as ridiculous as some are being here and ask you if you're willing to risk your family's lives for these people, but I know that's a STUPID question and a STUPID comparison...


edit- forgot to ask this earlier.. do you all whine about airport inspections too? Do you think you have the right to fly as well? I just made 7 flights in less than two weeks and had to go through security at every one of them. Am I a criminal or did I give them any reason to suspect me? Of course not. But that's how it is, thanks to a few idiots that can't play by the rules. I suppose some of you think we should just stop all that security stuff because it's not fair to punish everyone for the stupidity of a few.. On my flight out of Seoul Incheon, they even had the nerve to check us once again at the gate prior to boarding the plane. Was it a bit of a hassle? Of course. But the plane made it to Seattle in one piece and all of us got to where we wanted to be. The ends justified the means once again. Funny how that always happens...

As a matter of fact yes I do "whine" about inspections. I'm a credentialed Special Agent for the DoD, and I still get searched, prodded, and man-handled by the TSA every time I go through the air port. The last time I went through, I had to spend 10 minutes explaining to them what the hell my badge was for (since it has go to through the X-ray). The first few times I went through the backscatter machine and I still got patted down, I figured I'd just save time and opt for the pat down, since I was going to get it anyway.

Do you know what we call the TSA (or what they do) in the security arena? It's called deterrence. Just like a fence is a deterrence (not meant to stop anyone) it's meant as a show. It's so easy to sneak items on to a plane, it's ridiculous. When I was a heavy smoker, I routinely put extra lighter fluid in my carryon for my Zippo lighter, in case I ran out on travel. It's all about the moron running the xray machine. Often times they aren't even paying attention, and they're just yacking away with their fellow workers.

If the TSA ever caught a real bomber, threat, etc. it would be all over the news, and if not, I would know from the back channels anyways. They haven't. The true security we have are the hardened cockpit doors, the trained flight attendants, and the Federal Air Marshals.

Edit - Your beloved TSA at their finest.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/taryn_asher/dad-special-needs-son-harassed-by-tsa-at-detroit-metropolitan-airport-20110608-wpms (broken link)

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Why stop at punishing the bar, lets just outlaw anything that can kill anyone. Lets make the driving limit 30mph in San Antonio, outlaw bars, cigarettes, prescription meds, sleeping pills, antihistamines, nightquil, etc. Anything that could possibly impair your ability to drive should be illegal based upon your limited argument.

It's attitudes like yours that scare me about the future my daughters will grow up in.

[The Black Irish]

Hey everyone! I am about to go to happy hour with some friends and have some beer/margaritas. Then I am going to play poker and have bar-b-q at another friends meaning I will most likely be drinking for awhile. But guess what???? We already have a dd and we are all staying at someone's house after we play cards. You see there...I just eliminated myself from the drunk driving equation because I took some personal responsibility because I know I am going to be drinking. Honestly, was not even that hard either. Made a few phone calls and now I am keeping myself and others safe by not being on the road after drinking. You are wlecome and have a pleasant evening

[Verio]

Originally Posted by The Black Irish

Hey everyone! I am about to go to happy hour with some friends and have some beer/margaritas. Then I am going to play poker and have bar-b-q at another friends meaning I will most likely be drinking for awhile. But guess what???? We already have a dd and we are all staying at someone's house after we play cards. You see there...I just eliminated myself from the drunk driving equation because I took some personal responsibility because I know I am going to be drinking. Honestly, was not even that hard either. Made a few phone calls and now I am keeping myself and others safe by not being on the road after drinking. You are wlecome and have a pleasant evening

The wife and I (and our two kids) are going to the Flying Saucer tonight. I'm going to have a nice cold Belgian-style beer, and probably try a flight of some various beers (waitresses choice). They have good food and the wife's a great DD there (she hates beer, lol).

[heimerswt]

Originally Posted by Verio

The wife and I (and our two kids) are going to the Flying Saucer tonight. I'm going to have a nice cold Belgian-style beer, and probably try a flight of some various beers (waitresses choice). They have good food and the wife's a great DD there (she hates beer, lol).

Mmmm Orval, if they have it.

[perticusrex]

Originally Posted by rd2007

Does anybody know there's a multi-quote button?

I didn't know

[rd2007]

It's the middle button in the bottom-right corner. You can click it on multiple messages and click the quote button for the one you want to be last. Makes threads much smaller and easier for the DB to handle and keeps your post count down.

[huckster]

Bartenders are dope pushers, nothing more, nothing less. It is not about anyones rights or some sort of big brother plot to deprive persons of questionable character of the ability to patronize sleazy taverns and then drive away. Alchohol is just another drug only difference is, it is a legal one. A bar is a little more than a crack house, just a little different clientele and ...defending anyones rights to imbibe publicly is an inane argument, ethically.
Ever noticed how ridiculouos the conversations are, for the most part, in bars? This debate is akin to those conversations....
A good friend of mine, coincidentally a tavern owner, left a tavern one time
in May of 2001.
To make a long story short, Thomp,(a good guy to boot, and a friend of many years)-as we called him, ran over and killed the younger brother of a mutual acquaintance(Brian) who was just walking down the street in a small town. Two kids in fact, only one died.
Prison time? Yea.
A company car, a small town where everyone knows everyones business
makes for a very irredeemable debt and story. It has no ending.

Originally Posted by rd2007

Once again, a ridiculous argument that has nothing to do with the subject. In THIS case, people are killing innocent people that had absolutely nothing to do with the original issue. Bars are going out of their way to load these people up with alcohol and encouraging its consumption (advertrising, happy hours, drink specials, neon signs etc). If stores were handing out guns to use for robberies, then yeah, your pathetic argument might hold some water. But they're not and it sunk as soon as you typed those ridiculous words..

[rd2007]

Great analogy huckster.
Alcohol is nothing more than a politically accepted drug. Meanwhile, much better drugs are deemed "bad" by the clueless, who most likely are on the side of bar owners and drunk drivers.

[Verio]

Originally Posted by rd2007

Great analogy huckster.
Alcohol is nothing more than a politically accepted drug. Meanwhile, much better drugs are deemed "bad" by the clueless, who most likely are on the side of bar owners and drunk drivers.

If you have an issue with drugs being labeled "bad" by your Government officials, take that up with them. They seem to think that the legalization of alcohol isn't as bad as the crime that goes with illegalization.

Look, alcohol is legal, it's my legal right to drink it, buy it, or enjoy it at an establishment. If you're going to label every place that sells booze a bar, then I guess your local Chili's is considered an "evil" place as well, pushing unwanted drugs on clueless citizens.

Why not hold the person accountable that drank too much instead of holding an establishment responsible for selling too much.

BTW, ethics of a populous are dictated by public opinion. If the populous public opinion was in favor of stricter guidelines for alcohol, they would be in place, just the same as legalization of Marijuana, which you've brought up multiple times.

Sorry dude, it's not the 70's, and if you look at Colorado, California, and Washington state, you can see that the Cannabis clubs aren't working out so well for them. Instead you have gang bangers stealing from the medicinal shops, just so they can sell it down the street, just the same as old granny buying an ounce so she can sell dime bags down at the nursing home.