Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-20-2012, 09:09 AM
 
6,707 posts, read 8,786,164 times
Reputation: 4871

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Ah, I was wondering when you were going to chime in!

First, the BCSO are not "punks," they are certified peace officers and I for one take offense at your insulting them. Such blatant and broad sweeping disrespect towards law enforcement officials undermines your comments as being "punk" themselves.

Secondly, it wasn't "obviously 45" on Babcock, the posted speed limit is 30 MPH despite whatever claims you may make.

Thirdly, your claims of traffic enforcement being "revenue generation" have been disproved ad nasuem. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong (as it is).

Enjoy the Caribbean!
Some (not all) BCSD officers are more like certified harrasment, not peace officers.

 
Old 01-20-2012, 09:13 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,399 posts, read 23,000,516 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drzy View Post
I disagree with this part. Since there's no sign a driver coming down the path I took can see, I don't call that being posted.
There are posted speed limits on that road, and it is not '45' as Soviet claimed until that point past Kyle Seale parkway.

Even if it weren't marked, it would be 30 MPH by law; and the claim that it would be 60 MPH on such a road could easily result in a reckless driving charge...

Quote:
§545.401. RECKLESS DRIVING; OFFENSE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person drives a vehicle in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.
Again, if you think you have a convincing argument, then by all means plead your case in front of a judge or jury; but there are no mitigating circumstances that I can see that will ensure your charges would be dismissed.

Don't let Soviet's 'opinion' convince you that you've got an automatic win on your hands; you have every right to take your case to court but unlike the case I argued in Idaho there isn't clear evidence to your innocence. You might be able to convince a judge to take pity on you (they often do when people appear before them), but most likely you're still going to be found guilty but with the opportunity to complete probation and defensive driving.

The bottom line is that the speed limit on that road is 30 MPH, and you were caught driving 12 MPH over that.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,399 posts, read 23,000,516 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTx View Post
Some (not all) BCSD officers are more like certified harrasment, not peace officers.
Yeah, I've met a few BCSO deputies that weren't the nicest people in the world; I've even had a few disagreements with a couple of them about doing their job. But by law they are all TCLEOSE certified otherwise they would not be able to perform their duties.

And if you think they can be jerks, spend a shift with one of them and learn firsthand what huge jerks people are that they have to deal with on a daily basis! Now multiply that by 250 (the number of days they are on duty every year) and see how nice of a person any one of us would be after a few years...

Few people who haven't had firsthand experience in law enforcement have any appreciation for what the job entails.

And the vast majority of those that have negative opinions of the police are the result of something they themselves did wrong but are not willing to accept responsibility for! Either that or it's some experience where the police were not at fault, such as the typical "my son who is accused of robbing the convenience store and shooting the clerk is a nice boy who would never do anything like that despite having a lengthy criminal record and a history of drug use" stories we see on the news every time some poor, innocent soul is 'wrongly arrested' despite all the evidence proving their guilt!

Such claims as "speed traps" and such are lame excuses. Even if it isn't intentional, if a person breaks the law and gets caught doing so by the police, they cannot blame the police for doing the job society pays them to do!
 
Old 01-20-2012, 09:33 AM
 
330 posts, read 1,373,463 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
There are posted speed limits on that road, and it is not '45' as Soviet claimed until that point past Kyle Seale parkway.
Perhaps I can better illustrate the problem with an example.

Let's say someone turns left from Kyle Seale onto Babcock. There is no speed limit sign there, so the person who just entered Babcock has no idea that the speed limit sign back by Heuermann say it's 45 mph. The "posted" limit (that the driver can't see) on that stretch is 45 mph.

What is this driver supposed to do? Go 30 mph? That would be exceptionally slow for that area of the road, slow enough to be unsafe in my opinion.

You seem to think it's not a problem that there's no speed limit sign where I came in. Am I misunderstanding? Should there be a speed limit sign that let's people know the speed, especially on a major, well-traveled road like Babcock that has a posted speed of 45 mph right down the road?
 
Old 01-20-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,399 posts, read 23,000,516 times
Reputation: 4435
There is the matter of a safe and prudent speed, which on Babcock would be different as the 'lower' portion of that road (from 1604 to Kyle Seale) is definitely a different road than from that point onward to Scenic Loop Road. That upper section of Babcock, where the speed limit increases to 45 MPH, is wider, less curvy and offers a greater visual distance to a driver

But legally, on a small, curvy road such as the lower portion of Babcock a motorist is expected to do 30 MPH until such time as a sign indicates the speed limit. That is what that section of the Texas Transportation Code that I posted earlier is for. It is not feasible to place a speed limit sign after each and every intersection of Texas roads, which is why that statute was written.

It's not what people 'think' the speed limit should be, it is what the law dictates that it is. Police officers don't make those laws, then only enforce them and even then, it is up to the courts to determine if the actual violation has taken place. Every person accused has the right to dispute the charges against them, and if compelling evidence is present that they are innocent then the judge or jury will make that determination. However, since there are laws that dictate the speed limit on that road when there is no signage, it will be hard to argue otherwise. But it is never that cut and dry, you may get lucky and find a sympathetic judge that will have mercy on you and either offer you probation or even dismiss the charges. But don't think that it is clearly an erroneous charge, as there are laws that you are responsible for being aware of that show it's not. You take a chance going before the court, but if you think you can compel them in your favor than by all means give it a shot. I just don't want you to assume that you'll automatically win your case based on the information you've provided.

I hope it does turn out in your favor, just be prepared that it might not...and if it doesn't, understand that there is a legal reason for that.

Cheers! M2
 
Old 01-20-2012, 10:42 AM
 
554 posts, read 2,308,119 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drzy View Post
One problem is the speed limit *is* posted. It's posted as 45 MPH. I drive by the 45 MPH sign everyday, its why I was going 42.
I'm not saying you can't use this as an argument when you go to trial by judge, but in your original post you said:

Quote:
The officer asked me if I knew the speed, I admitted I didn't, and I was cited for 42 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.
I know sometimes we gauge our speed by how it "feels" and that if it felt normal to you that's one thing. But you can't say you were going a specific speed because you're aware of the speed limit on one section of the road, but then also say that you didn't know how fast you were going.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
108 posts, read 241,566 times
Reputation: 78
The reason I bring up the defensive driving course is because I was stopped by Balcones Heights Police at the intersection of Hillcrest and Fredericksburg, I was told I didn't make a complete stop at the light (before cameras were installed) (5:00 am.) no traffic but me and the cop. The next day I took a 2 day defensive driving course the on my second day of class I was coming up Backcock/Hillcrest to Fredericksburg in a standard Chevy S10 well the same cop stopped me and said I was driving 42 in a 30 mph speed zone, I told him I could't have I was only in 3rd gear going up hill and by the way I was on my way to my defensive driving class. I went to pay my fine and showed the judge my tickets and the defensive driving receipt and he said you got to be kidding me and threw out the second ticket and said for me to pay half the fine of the first offense.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 03:22 PM
 
330 posts, read 1,373,463 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
There is the matter of a safe and prudent speed, which on Babcock would be different as the 'lower' portion of that road (from 1604 to Kyle Seale) is definitely a different road than from that point onward to Scenic Loop Road. That upper section of Babcock, where the speed limit increases to 45 MPH, is wider, less curvy and offers a greater visual distance to a driver
As The Dude would say: That's just, like, your opinion, man. For a more serious answer, I certainly see your point, but that definitely is a matter of judgment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
But legally, on a small, curvy road such as the lower portion of Babcock a motorist is expected to do 30 MPH until such time as a sign indicates the speed limit. That is what that section of the Texas Transportation Code that I posted earlier is for. It is not feasible to place a speed limit sign after each and every intersection of Texas roads, which is why that statute was written.
It sounds like legally, it's the case everywhere, small, curvy road or not. But, there are exceptions -- for example, through my research of all this, if a speed limit sign has been obscured or stolen, that does not mean the courts will enforce the law to the letter and say the speed limit is 30 mph. Yes, if we interpret the law as written, obscured or stolen speed limit signs mean that stretch is now 30 mph, but fortunately, common sense prevails.

Here, I believe common sense will prevail as well. There is no way -- seriously, absolutely no possible way -- that I, or anybody, could have known the speed limit was 30 mph. Babcock is a major road with speed limit signs posted all over it. Turning from Luskey, why would I think, "hey, I just turned on a major road that I know is 45 mph, and hey, there's no sign here at this major intersection that says the speed limit. Well, even though I know the limit's 45 mph right up ahead all the way to Scenic Loop, maybe this tiny little stretch with no houses, no traffic, no nothing, maybe it's less. Sure, pretty much every major intersection in the city has a speed limit sign that indicates if a speed is slower than surrounding areas, but maybe they just decided to not put one in a spot that it would be extremely obvious to put one."

One thing I hope everyone agrees on is that there really should be a speed limit sign at that intersection, and that legal or not, people who get a ticket coming from that direction are getting a really bad break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
But don't think that it is clearly an erroneous charge, as there are laws that you are responsible for being aware of that show it's not. You take a chance going before the court, but if you think you can compel them in your favor than by all means give it a shot. I just don't want you to assume that you'll automatically win your case based on the information you've provided.
I no longer think that. When I started the thread, I thought it seemed like an easy not guilty ("why would I get a ticket when there's no speed limit sign?") I now know there's an interpretation of the law that says the limit was 30 mph; I definitely don't think that law was designed for a situation like mine, but it may be interpreted as such. We'll find out!
 
Old 01-20-2012, 03:23 PM
 
330 posts, read 1,373,463 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRose View Post
I know sometimes we gauge our speed by how it "feels" and that if it felt normal to you that's one thing. But you can't say you were going a specific speed because you're aware of the speed limit on one section of the road, but then also say that you didn't know how fast you were going.
When I told the officer I didn't know the speed limit, it was because I'd assumed I missed a speed limit sign. It was only later that I found out there was none.
 
Old 01-20-2012, 03:25 PM
 
330 posts, read 1,373,463 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobralou View Post
The reason I bring up the defensive driving course is because I was stopped by Balcones Heights Police at the intersection of Hillcrest and Fredericksburg, I was told I didn't make a complete stop at the light (before cameras were installed) (5:00 am.) no traffic but me and the cop. The next day I took a 2 day defensive driving course the on my second day of class I was coming up Backcock/Hillcrest to Fredericksburg in a standard Chevy S10 well the same cop stopped me and said I was driving 42 in a 30 mph speed zone, I told him I could't have I was only in 3rd gear going up hill and by the way I was on my way to my defensive driving class. I went to pay my fine and showed the judge my tickets and the defensive driving receipt and he said you got to be kidding me and threw out the second ticket and said for me to pay half the fine of the first offense.
Thanks, that's good info -- after the other posts, I was debating whether it'd be worth it. The defensive driving classes do make you indicate whether it's for a ticket or for insurance, so I wasn't sure if I took it for "insurance" if it would be helpful.

Sounds like I can't no for certain, and the judge may or may not allow it to count as credit. I think I'll go ahead and take it, and hope for the best.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2022 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top