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That's funny, my impression of this forum is that it is overwhelmingly pro-suburb, with suburban topics discussed to death and inner-city discussion (or even awareness) being practically nonexistent.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teenwolf80
My gosh. How did THIS thread, about a local billionaire using his own money for philanthropic capitalism in the downtown area, become a hot topic issue of urban vs suburban?!? Please discuss the topic at hand don't detour this into some opinion vs opinion flame thread BS.
Many threads turn to this exact line of discussion and it is not always a bad thing since it allows dialogue between suburbanites and city dwellers which is sorely needed.
I see a lot of familes downtown. If you actually spent time in southtown and king william, you will know this.
One that never goes downtown and makes such judgements is no better than someone from downtown that never makes it outside the loop making judgements about the suburbs.
I am downtown all the time, I work there. My issue is mainly one of tolerance. It is quite frustrating to have the loyal South Town crowd dismiss any recommendation for anything outside of South Town, and insinuate that poster knows nothing of which they speak. It is a common trend, not an isolated event. The usual suspects dispute anything that paints areas outside the loop in a positive light. Sure, there are great areas in the city, and there are families with kids in the city. Not disputing that fact at all. My OP stated some of the reasons for people that opt to move out to the suburbs choosing to do so.
As stated in your post, people from either area, inside/outside the loop, that have not spent time in the other areas should not be so critical. The problem is, this seems lost on the loyal inner loop cheerleaders.
I am downtown all the time, I work there. My issue is mainly one of tolerance. It is quite frustrating to have the loyal South Town crowd dismiss any recommendation for anything outside of South Town, and insinuate that poster knows nothing of which they speak. It is a common trend, not an isolated event. The usual suspects dispute anything that paints areas outside the loop in a positive light. Sure, there are great areas in the city, and there are families with kids in the city. Not disputing that fact at all. My OP stated some of the reasons for people that opt to move out to the suburbs choosing to do so.
As stated in your post, people from either area, inside/outside the loop, that have not spent time in the other areas should not be so critical. The problem is, this seems lost on the loyal inner loop cheer leaders.
Completely agree! I posted about failed DOWNTOWN projects..and our favorite SouthTown Cheerleaders have to start talking about how wonderful and perfect South Town is. South Town is not Downtown. If it was, it would be called downtown. Downtown is bordered by the freeways and Durango (yes I said Durango)
I have said it before, if a neighborhood or area is great, it speaks for itself. The more you try to promote an area the more people wonder?
You never hear anything talk about the old historic area around Jeff.
The SouthTown Cheerleaders need to give it a rest.
And for the record, my family is originally from the South Town area. My Grandmother moved into a house on Peters Court in 1921. Both her and my mother lived there as adults. My Dad grew up on Keller and Simon streets.
Everyone watched the tower go up from their front porches and moved out shortly after that to the nice northside surburbs What do they say about the area now, "it is cleaned up, but too many hippies and I still wouldn't park my car in the street or drive down there at night."
I am downtown all the time, I work there. My issue is mainly one of tolerance. It is quite frustrating to have the loyal South Town crowd dismiss any recommendation for anything outside of South Town, and insinuate that poster knows nothing of which they speak. It is a common trend, not an isolated event. The usual suspects dispute anything that paints areas outside the loop in a positive light. Sure, there are great areas in the city, and there are families with kids in the city. Not disputing that fact at all. My OP stated some of the reasons for people that opt to move out to the suburbs choosing to do so.
And MY statement corrected the erroneous statements - i.e. that people with families do not live downtown. That professionals do no live downtown. That is incorrect, and I will not let such a false statement continue without response, for there are many people reading these posts to get an idea of where to live. Many people are interested in downtown but scared away by false posts such as yours. They deserve the correct information from people who actually live here.
If you knew something of what you were talking about, you would not have made such a false statement.
This has zero to do with a preference for urban vs suburban. Everyone has their preference. It has everything to do with false statements Moderator cut: see comment .
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-27-2012 at 03:53 PM..
Reason: Personal attacks are not permitted per ToS. We may attack ideas but we do not attack the speaker of the ideas.
What do they say about the area now, "it is cleaned up, but too many hippies and I still wouldn't park my car in the street or drive down there at night."
As long as people have that impression, there need to be people to counter it.
Yes, there was a time this area was unsafe. There was a time it was full of crime and lacked amenities. People who knew of it then still think it is that way, evidenced by the many posts here which give erroneous information.
The area has revived because people believed in it and decided to make a difference. To continue its revival, it must attract more like minded folks (and by like-minded, I mean those committed to revival of the urban core). If folks here continue to give out false information, it scares new people away. So you can bet that every time someone posts erroneous or misleading information about this area, I will correct them. In addition, I've found the realtors and reloc folks tend to be very unfamiliar with this area (better of late, but still a problem), so they too need to be educated about it so they can give their clients who may prefer urban living appropriate guidance.
I never suggest to those requesting info on suburban locations that they should look downtown/southtown unless they've indicated some interest in that type of area. If they prefer suburbs, there are people here more qualified to speak to that area. I have lived in the suburbs - two areas - and I spend plenty of time outside the loop and have friends all over the city, so I have a clue about some areas, but am no expert. Similarly, anyone who says there are no professionals living downtown or that people with families won't live downtown is expressing their ignorance of the area and should re-think their comments when corrected.
Just because someone has a fear about a place based on old information or prejudices doesn't make it true. And, fwiw, we walk with our kids in the neighborhood in the evening all the time. And there are plenty of families with kids doing the same. Usually not too late, as they are kids and need to go to bed, not for any safety concerns.
yes, some families may prefer the suburbs over the urban areas and that's their right. They may do so for whatever reasons work for them. But plenty of families and professionals choose to remain in the urban center or, as we're finding now, move back to the urban center.
And yes, downtown is distinct from Southtown, though they are adjacent areas and for most people (except a few loyal downtowners), they are lumped together. It takes all of 10 minutes for this Southtowner to walk into downtown, it might as well be the same.
And MY statement corrected the erroneous statements - i.e. that people with families do not live downtown. That professionals do no live downtown. That is incorrect, and I will not let such a false statement continue without response, for there are many people reading these posts to get an idea of where to live. Many people are interested in downtown but scared away by false posts such as yours. They deserve the correct information from people who actually live here.
If you knew something of what you were talking about, you would not have made such a false statement.
This has zero to do with a preference for urban vs suburban. Everyone has their preference. It has everything to do with false statements Moderator cut: see comment .
1. If you re-read my post, I never stated people with families don't live downtown.
2. I have not yet stooped to personal insults and would ask you to use the same restraint. Moderator cut: orphaned You seem to have a lot more invested in this discussion from an emotional standpoint. I know people with families live in South Town, never said they didn't, I simply stated a reason for people moving out of the city. I resent someone that doesn't know me from Adam stating that I am ignorant. I also resent the fact you and your ilk routinely slam anything suburban, and then play the passive-aggressive game in back tracking. It is okay for you to disparage where anyone else lives, but let someone post something that you feel denigrates South Town and the hackles go up. I have nothing against South Town, it isn't for me personally, but I have not yet posted anything critical of the area, or criticizing people that choose to live there. I don't quite grasp how you make the leap from me explaining why people opt to move out to the 'burbs as a direct insult to the Inner Loop area. Quite a jump.
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-27-2012 at 03:56 PM..
1. If you re-read my post, I never stated people with families don't live downtown.
2. I have not yet stooped to personal insults and would ask you to use the same restraint. Moderator cut: orphaned You seem to have a lot more invested in this discussion from an emotional standpoint. I know people with families live in South Town, never said they didn't, I simply stated a reason for people moving out of the city. I resent someone that doesn't know me from Adam stating that I am ignorant. I also resent the fact you and your ilk routinely slam anything suburban, and then play the passive-aggressive game in back tracking. It is okay for you to disparage where anyone else lives, but let someone post something that you feel denigrates South Town and the hackles go up. I have nothing against South Town, it isn't for me personally, but I have not yet posted anything critical of the area, or criticizing people that choose to live there. I don't quite grasp how you make the leap from me explaining why people opt to move out to the 'burbs as a direct insult to the Inner Loop area. Quite a jump.
Moderator cut: see comment Outright false statements despite knowing otherwise, however, are inexcusable. That has nothing to do with you as a person, I'm responding to words on a page which are false (frankly, I don't even look at who the poster is 99% of the time). I have no doubt that some people with families choose to move away, but that downtown isn't a place for families? That is simply wrong, as evidenced by the abundance of kids everywhere you look.
Once again, I corrected false information. I have every right to do so and will continue to do so as long as it is made. I don't like the suburbs myself for many reasons (grew up in them and lived in them for awhile as an adult), but I recognize that is where many people choose to live. Good for them. I love the country and we strongly considered that when looking to buy. Ultimately we made the decision to live in the urban center for a variety of reasons that worked for us. I do have very valid concerns regarding the environmental impact of rampant development over fragile resources, but that's a different issue that needs to be discussed on a broader scale.
As for the original topic, it's fabulous that a private investor with deep pockets wants to contribute to the revival of San Antonio's urban core. There are indeed many issues with our current downtown which need to be addressed, and investment like Weston's will, presumably (hopefully!) address some of these issues.
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-27-2012 at 03:59 PM..
Reason: Personal attacks are not permitted per ToS. We may attack ideas but we do not attack the speaker of the ideas.
Moderator cut: see comment Outright false statements despite knowing otherwise, however, are inexcusable. That has nothing to do with you as a person, I'm responding to words on a page which are false (frankly, I don't even look at who the poster is 99% of the time). I have no doubt that some people with families choose to move away, but that downtown isn't a place for families? That is simply wrong, as evidenced by the abundance of kids everywhere you look.
Once again, I corrected false information. I have every right to do so and will continue to do so as long as it is made. I don't like the suburbs myself for many reasons (grew up in them and lived in them for awhile as an adult), but I recognize that is where many people choose to live. Good for them. I love the country and we strongly considered that when looking to buy. Ultimately we made the decision to live in the urban center for a variety of reasons that worked for us. I do have very valid concerns regarding the environmental impact of rampant development over fragile resources, but that's a different issue that needs to be discussed on a broader scale.
As for the original topic, it's fabulous that a private investor with deep pockets wants to contribute to the revival of San Antonio's urban core. There are indeed many issues with our current downtown which need to be addressed, and investment like Weston's will, presumably (hopefully!) address some of these issues.
As predicted, here we go with the passive-aggressive thing....
Do you read replies, or just have a knee jerk reaction to post snarky responses? What false information?!? If you re-read my original post, you would see that I never said there are no families with children in South Town. I can't make it any clearer than that. I offered an explanation for why people move out of the city, but did not say people with kids, or, and I don't know where you got this from, that professionals don't live in the city. I think you're confusing my posts with those of someone else.
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-27-2012 at 04:01 PM..
As predicted, here we go with the passive-aggressive thing....
Do you read replies, or just have a knee jerk reaction to post snarky responses? What false information?!? If you re-read my original post, you would see that I never said there are no families with children in South Town. I can't make it any clearer than that. I offered an explanation for why people move out of the city, but did not say people with kids, or, and I don't know where you got this from, that professionals don't live in the city. I think you're confusing my posts with those of someone else.
Not really sure what's passive-aggressive about responding to incorrect info, but here you go (actually had to look at your name so I could find the specific post...)
"Younger people with no children, and older "empty nesters" are the main city residents. Most people are fine living close to downtown, and enjoying the dining, night life, etc. until they have kids. Then, they move out to the suburbs. Why? It is more family friendly. Room for kids to play, more space, safer, less traffic, etc"
We can nit-pik about what "most people" actually means. From an outsider's perspective, I would take this to mean that downtown isn't a place for families. That it's not family friendly. That it's for empty nesters and younger people without kids. That there is no space for kids to play, that it's not safe, that there is more traffic. If I didn't know San Antonio at all, was looking for an urban place to live with kids, this would probably make me reconsider. My own experience of living here for the past 10 years first without kids now with, is very very different. Hence, why I feel it must be corrected.
Given your further explanations, I'll take it to mean that you think "some" but not ALL and certainly not MOST.
One of the great things about San Antonio is that families *can* comfortably live in the urban core. That while downtown apartments may not be ideal for families, there are many wonderful houses on large lots within walking distance of downtown and in a community with many walkable ammenities, and compared to most other cities of its size, the area is relatively affordable.
FTR - I respond to topics rather than to individuals. Generally I quote exactly that to which I'm responding, but after awhile the topics get joined together. It was indeed another poster who stated that professionals don't live downtown (because the poster doesn't know any personally). I eventually put two incorrect statements together, as it was easier to address that way. My apologies if that caused confusion. I will, however, continue to respond to topics rather than to individuals, unless that is against the TOS. I prefer that as it is never personal. If I choose to discuss personal matters, I will do so via direct DM.
Cheers to Graham Weston...looking forward to more information on this.
Moderator cut: Off-Topic
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 03-27-2012 at 04:22 PM..
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