Monday hidden police search (Howe: crime, inspections, military) - San Antonio - Texas (TX) - City-Data Forum

joevil2025 · 05-31-2012, 10:31 AM

Somone have information, this past monday i was informed in the wee hours of the morning (before six possibly) police where under the 1604 and culebra intersection peforming searches of cars in the turn around, but as far as i hear, only in the turn around, not canvassing the entire intersection.

This concerns me they may have bee fishing which is illegal, since it is done without warrant, i mean if they under a real warranted search why not do the entire intersection? Something seems fishy, if you have any information, or if you where just one of the searched, i'd like to hear it. I've also contacted SAPD and the mayor for any information, but i don't always hear back from either.

Me007gold · 05-31-2012, 10:34 AM

Ive seen them at I-10 and Dezavala as well, I figure they are looking for people not wearing seat belts or expired inspections.

Bo · 05-31-2012, 10:35 AM

Might also have been a DUI checkpoint. I've seen those happen at the Bitters underpass on US-281 before.

Neshomamench · 05-31-2012, 10:42 AM

"Fishing" itself is not illegal. The various ways that happens dictates if something is illegal or not. In reality, what the public calls fishing is most often legal investigation. The police are not sure, thus they investigate.

In theory, all searches based on probable cause, (an evidentiary standard that allows for a search, there are also other ways to search but that is another issue) have some level of "fishing" to them. Probable cause, by its very name implies a strong idea, not a fact. They Police are going to investigate to see if something is true or not. The police do not have to be right, they just have to articulate, under oath with the threat of job loss, finanical ruin and imprisonment why they did what they did. Sometimes they are wrong. That is the nature of investigation. You go where the facts lead you.

Neshomamench · 05-31-2012, 10:58 AM

BTW, a police officer can be anywhere in public and if he sees a violation of the law, be it no seatbelt, no front plate, murder, whatever, he can now detain you. It is that simple. That is not "fishing" that is observing a crime. While you are detained, if probable cause is developed for other crimes, a search (in most cases) can take place.

For example: I am standing in the turn around at 1604 and Culebra. There is nothing that prevents that. It is a public place. I observe someone with no front plate and I order them to pull over. (or have them pulled over) So far, 100% legal. I observed a violation of the law and I am now detaining you.

While I have you detainined I notice, using plain view doctrine, what appears to be a white powdery substance on a CD jewel case on the floor board of your car. I have no proof what it is. It could be sugar but I now have probable cause to search. No matter what the results of that search are, no law was broken, even if I am wrong.

You got a "call" about something you dont even understand, or know what was going on. And it "alarmed you" and you "think" they are doing something illegal. They are not. You need to INVESTIGATE to learn the facts. I hope I have helped you some so that you understand how it works.

majormadmax · 05-31-2012, 11:12 AM

I can guarantee you that it wasn't "random searches," and it wasn't a DWI checkpoint as they are not legal in Texas (the state prohibits them based on the its interpretation of the US Constitution).

However, the police are allowed to stop vehicles for observed violations, e.g. lack of a seatbelt by any occupant, expired registration or inspection, etc.

There is also such a thing as a Terry Stop when a brief detention of a person by the police is allowed based on a reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest. It stems from the following lawsuit...

Quote:

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968) was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and frisks him without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person "may be armed and presently dangerous." (392 U.S. 1, at 30.)

It is commonly used during traffic stops, in that under Federal law, drivers and passengers may be ordered out of the vehicle without additional justification by the officer. Drivers and passengers may also be searched for weapons upon reasonable suspicion they are armed and dangerous. If the police reasonably suspect the driver or any of the occupants may be dangerous and that the vehicle may contain a weapon to which an occupant may gain access, police may perform a protective search of the passenger compartment.

Note however that Texas law does not require a detainee to identify himself unless he has been lawfully arrested, but does make it a crime to provide a false name (Texas Penal Code §38.02). For more info on this, Google Brown v. Texas, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

Life is a lot easier if you just do a little research instead of speculating...

Cheers! M2

goodmanm · 05-31-2012, 11:16 AM

They used to bust people there on the northbound side driving off the road to get to turnaround because the traffic was backed up. That was just in the afternoon though. I used to drive by there every morning around 5:30 (haven't the last week or so) and there isn't enough traffic down there for that at that time. Maybe the turn lane lights aren't switching and people are running red lights (like what's been happening at military drive west/1604 intersection) and the cops are busting people for it, who knows. I just hope they find whoever/whatever they're looking for!

Neshomamench · 05-31-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majormadmax

Note however that Texas law does not require a detainee to identify himself unless he has been lawfully arrested, but does make it a crime to provide a false name (Texas Penal Code §38.02). For more info on this, Google Brown v. Texas, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

You need to be real careful with this. If an officer observes you violate a law, or has probable cause of a crime, you are UNDER ARREST. It is custodial detention. You must identify yourself. If you were driving, you must present a drivers license.

If you are free to leave, you do not have to indentify yourself (non custodial detention) such as an officer randomly walking up to you and asking for an ID. Something the Police may do, but without a legal reason to detain you where you are not free to leave, you may simply leave.

When you get a ticket for no seat belt(or whatever), you have been arrested. You just bonded out on the side of the road by signing(or being let go). An Officer can take you to jail for any violation of the law in the State of Texas, (except speeding and open container...I dont know what those are exceptions by statute)

Some of the lines do get a bit complicated and blurred. but again, as a primer, Identifying yourself pretty much depends on if you are free to leave or not. (custodial vs. non custodial) The "reasonable man" standard (what the courts often use as a test) often applies here.

Hedgehog_Mom · 05-31-2012, 12:55 PM

It's fairly common for them to be ticketing people in the turnaround lane at 1604 and Culebra for seat belt violations. My hubby and his buddies will text each other if they see it happening, so everyone buckles up before they go through that intersection

britishbird · 05-31-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom

It's fairly common for them to be ticketing people in the turnaround lane at 1604 and Culebra for seat belt violations. My hubby and his buddies will text each other if they see it happening, so everyone buckles up before they go through that intersection

They should be buckling up when they first get into the car.