1604 toll rd. (Houston, Katy: public schools, maintenance, taxes)

[TrapperL]

Funds for the completion of 1604 from Bandera Road to Wiseman have already been put aside. There is no reason for toll roading something that's already paid for with Texas tax payer dollars. The money was set aside in May 2012. Here's the project:
The San Antonio Area Freeway System - Project Info: Loop 1604 from Bandera to Culebra

Toll roads are nothing more than another way of extracting money from the tax payer, pure and simple.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

Funds for the completion of 1604 from bandera Road to Wiseman have already been put aside. There is no reason for toll roading something that's already paid for with Texas tax payer dollars. The money was set aside in May 2012. Here's the project:
The San Antonio Area Freeway System - Project Info: Loop 1604 from Bandera to Culebra

That section of 1604 is not included in the toll plans.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

Funds for the completion of 1604 from Bandera Road to Wiseman have already been put aside. There is no reason for toll roading something that's already paid for with Texas tax payer dollars. The money was set aside in May 2012.

Originally Posted by rynetwo

That section of 1604 is not included in the toll plans.

That is correct. As I said in my earlier post:

Originally Posted by TexHwyMan

Actually, the section where the super street is is already slated to be upgraded to a toll-free expressway starting later this year.

Just for reference, the section with the super street is from Braun to Culebra.

Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs

I don't know about that "working well" part.

The super street portion of Loop 1604 has worked quite well. That stretch between New Gilbeau and Shaenfield used to be backed-up all the time and now it flows much better than before.

[Torpedos]

werent we suppose to have flying cars by now? i was told as a kid that there would be flying cars. so we could just fly over the tolls.

[Merovee]

Well those who wanted and still favor privatization of our schools, jails, postal services, and other state owned functions are too blame. Look at the monster you created.

Corporations will run these with a profit motive in mind so now the only thing left for progressives is to try and curb that profit motive. It's all push and take, we can push but they will still take.

Privatization advocates have already won and in time we can see the surrendering of other public services to corporate interests.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Merovee

Well those who wanted and still favor privatization of our schools, jails, postal services, and other state owned functions are too blame. Look at the monster you created.

Corporations will run these with a profit motive in mind so now the only thing left for progressives is to try and curb that profit motive. It's all push and take, we can push but they will still take.

Privatization advocates have already won and in time we can see the surrendering of other public services to corporate interests.

Most people seem to think the road was already paid for with tax dollars. The existing lanes on 1604 were paid for with tax dollars but adding new lanes apparently haven't. I say apparently because didn't TxDot find a few billion dollars a few years back?

[bolonyokte]

the way i understand that new thru way toll road to Austin or thereabouts is-- that the toll road is not paying for itself the way it was envisioned so they are collecting money to pay for it from other sources-- also that drivers from out of state LP do not have to uppay the toll has anybody else heard something similar to that affect 1604 is paid for so i think it should be left for use to those that paid for it, built yourselves tolls in other areas.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by bolonyokte

the way i understand that new thru way toll road to Austin or thereabouts is-- that the toll road is not paying for itself the way it was envisioned so they are collecting money to pay for it from other sources-- also that drivers from out of state LP do not have to uppay

Not quite true. The tolling authority can mail notices to drivers with plates from other states, but they have no way to collect from drivers of vehicles with plates from Mexico.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by bolonyokte

the way i understand that new thru way toll road to Austin or thereabouts is-- that the toll road is not paying for itself the way it was envisioned so they are collecting money to pay for it from other sources-- also that drivers from out of state LP do not have to uppay the toll has anybody else heard something similar to that affect 1604 is paid for so i think it should be left for use to those that paid for it, built yourselves tolls in other areas.

There are two sections to SH 130 -- one south of Austin, which is operated by a concessionaire, and one east of Austin, which is operated by the state. The southern section was recently reported to not have met expected traffic volumes, but the concessionaire eats that loss, not the state. I haven't seen the numbers for the northern section, but since it was financed with bonds, those will have to be repaid, but I don't know the mechanism that would be used to do that if it's underperforming. They may simply let the bonds default, although that's unlikely.

Out-of-state drivers do have to pay. Their license plate is photographed and they are sent a bill in the mail. If they don't pay, it's sent to a collection agency just as if they didn't pay a credit card bill.

Loop 1604 is badly congested and needs to be expanded. Because there are toll-free lanes on it now, any toll project would have to include the same number of toll-free lanes, thus insuring that lanes "already paid for" would remain while new, additional capacity could be added in the form of tolled lanes.

[dpantle]

Originally Posted by TexHwyMan

There are two sections to SH 130 -- one south of Austin, which is operated by a concessionaire, and one east of Austin, which is operated by the state. The southern section was recently reported to not have met expected traffic volumes, but the concessionaire eats that loss, not the state.

The other side of the privatization debate. Even building a road for profit comes with risk. In the case of the southern section of SH130, the lack of volume does not surprise me. If a project is a pig from conception, even better to privatize it, provided you can find a firm who hasn't done their due diligence.

In my opinion, privatization isn't always a bad thing (above is case in point). Private companies seem to be more efficient over public entities most of the time. Profit is a strong motivator for efficiency. The state has no profit motive of course, so running these projects at a loss cost every taxpayer. Personally, I have no problem with private companies profiting from these kind of projects. More power to them, and in the final analysis, private sector jobs are created, investment capital is risked and spread around, and the poject gets done with less risk to the general public (meaning you and me as taxpayers).