1604 toll rd. (Seguin: quality of life, tax, costs)

[Bo]

Originally Posted by bigtexan99

This is not the problem. Not at all. The problem is that the legislature spends the gas tax money on stuff other than roads.

And even thought the gas tax has not increased since 1991, the population has certainly increased as has the number of gallons sold per year. Therefore their tax receipts have increased.

If the legislature stops applying fuel tax money to uses other than roads, they'll have to either cut the functions other than roads that those taxes are being applied to or raise new taxes. The majority in both houses of the legislature is loath to raise new taxes.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by bigtexan99

This is not the problem. Not at all. The problem is that the legislature spends the gas tax money on stuff other than roads.

Did you not read my post where I discuss diversions? Yes, that is part of the problem, but it's not the biggest part of the problem.

Originally Posted by bigtexan99

And even thought the gas tax has not increased since 1991, the population has certainly increased as has the number of gallons sold per year. Therefore their tax receipts have increased.

Yes, but each of those new residents increases the need for new roadways. However, they're only paying at a 1991 rate. So here's an analogy: imagine you're getting paid 1991 wages today. First of all, could you make ends meet on that? Then, you have a child, so your boss gives you a raise, but he gives you the raise he would give in 1991. Meanwhile, you still have to pay 2013 costs to support your family. Do you see the problem? And that doesn't even take into account the fact that cars have better MPG today than they did in 1991, so they're paying even less tax per mile. The math just doesn't work.

[optichris]

I really wish they'd drop the toll road fight for existing roads. I get the argument that the existing lanes (or equivalent of) will be there when the toll lanes are finished, but that land was still paid for by taxpayers, so it's not just about the lanes, but the land they sit on as well. If a company wants to build a toll road, go acquire the land and build it then, and charge whatever you want, the free market will decide to take it or leave it.

[IonRedline08]

I am ok with them putting up a Toll Road, as long as you have a choice on which one to take. I think a "Texas Turnpike" from here to Austin and to Dallas would be awesome. I am sure a lot of people would pay to take it. I don't know if anyone has been on the West Virginia Turnpike, but, while a bit treacherous due to being in the mountains, is a fabulous road, very well maintained and has never been very busy while I have been on it. Totally worth the money to me.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by optichris

I really wish they'd drop the toll road fight for existing roads. I get the argument that the existing lanes (or equivalent of) will be there when the toll lanes are finished, but that land was still paid for by taxpayers, so it's not just about the lanes, but the land they sit on as well. If a company wants to build a toll road, go acquire the land and build it then, and charge whatever you want, the free market will decide to take it or leave it.

So if TxDOT or ARMA builds the toll lanes, would that be OK since they're government agencies? What if a private toll-road developer leased the land? And BTW, not all highway right-of-way was paid for by taxpayers.

[TexHwyMan]

There will be a public meeting on the Loop 1604 project from Braun to Culebra next Tuesday at Zion Lutheran Church:
Public Hearing - Loop 1604

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by bspray

This is a little bit of a mis-characterization of the situation. In reality the gas tax revenue is more than enough to fund all new highway projects in Texas as well as road maintenance. The problem is just about half the tax collected on gas (around $4 billion annually) is diverted from it's intended use (roads and road repairs) to other projects in the state. If our state leaders would stop diverting half the gas tax to other projects we would never need toll roads.

I did some more digging and I think I found where your $4 billion number comes from: it's a number TURF throws around and includes diversions from the gas tax plus vehicle sales taxes, which right now go entirely to the general fund (~$3.5B last year.) As I mentioned in a previous post, that's definitely one of the possibilities to be looked as part of a complete funding reform. The problem, of course, is that leaves a $3.5 billion hole in the general fund that would have to come from somewhere else.

[bspray]

Originally Posted by TexHwyMan

So if TxDOT or ARMA builds the toll lanes, would that be OK since they're government agencies? What if a private toll-road developer leased the land? And BTW, not all highway right-of-way was paid for by taxpayers.

Actually, from my perspective as a staunch toll opponent, I would be ok with this. If state agencies want to build toll roads AND keep free lanes on existing expressways (1604 and 281), I would be fine with this as long as the toll money stayed in the state and went to nothing other roads and road maintenance.

If a private company wants to build toll roads, they should have to do it COMPLETELY on their own, no tax payer money, no emminent domain, no taking over existing tax payer funded roads. If they want 100% of profit, they should take 100% of risk.

YMMV,
Brian

[Bo]

Originally Posted by bspray

If a private company wants to build toll roads, they should have to do it COMPLETELY on their own, no tax payer money, no emminent domain, no taking over existing tax payer funded roads. If they want 100% of profit, they should take 100% of risk.

Without eminent domain, the finished product is much less useful. If Rancher Roy won't sell at any price and let's say the result is a 2-mile detour, that inconvenience affects millions of vehicle trips, adding both mileage and time to them and wastes a tankers worth of fuel every few days.

[bspray]

Originally Posted by Bo

Without eminent domain, the finished product is much less useful. If Rancher Roy won't sell at any price and let's say the result is a 2-mile detour, that inconvenience affects millions of vehicle trips, adding both mileage and time to them and wastes a tankers worth of fuel every few days.

Then that private company is out of luck. Why should Rancher Roy be forced to give up his land just so someone else can turn a profit on it?