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Apparently, you missed or ignored one of my previous posts. It's not the whim of the Butt family, it's the whim of Castro and Wolff, who have found some way to either entice or coerce the Butts into doing their bidding. The most logical way for that would be a HUGE tax break, to offset both their startup costs and operational losses.
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I'm not quite sure "whim" is right, or 'bidding" is right either.
Castro has long championed the revitalization of downtown to bring us up to par with other cities. A worthwhile goal, IMO. Downtown residents have long said the lack of a grocery store (and other elements of daily living) was a negative factor in bringing downtown back to a livable area. So the mayor, and others, did what they thought needed to be done - offer an incentive to make it happen.
Unfortunately, despite the good intentions, it hasn't quite worked out well, IMO. I'm fairly certain HEB could care less about a downtown store - they closed the two stores nearest downtown to open their mega store which is also contrary to all urban principles, though that store is more in the near-suburbs than urban anyway. They want a compound and saw a way to make it happen. HEB isn't going to operate at a loss. Frankly, I think our mayor and council are being swayed by deep pockets and loyalty to a homegrown corporation. HEB and the Butt family have contributed a great deal to the area, particularly to local schools, so it's hard to say "no" to them. I don't think what they're planning is of any value to downtown or the surrounding areas.
I think our local leaders believed this was the best way to bring back downtown, but HEB works in a suburban mindset. They have long said they're not interested in small stores, but in expanding their Plus stores in the 'burbs. Yes, Charles Butt lives in the area but does anyone really think he walks to a grocery store and does his own shopping? I don't believe HEB is evil, they're a corporation looking at the bottom line, as they should. They want to build a private compound. As pretty as their current compound is, I'm not sure it does a lot for the 'hood - I'd rather see some urban activity, but I also have no desire to send them out to the 'burbs. I wish our local leaders would see it for what it really is, a corporate land grab, but they're trying to please all and can't.
I'd rather let the market do its work. When a company believes it's viable, move in. I do wonder what hold HEB has over the downtown area though - do the likes of Whole Foods and Trader Joe's really believe it's non-profitable or is there some other factor at play (there's a conspiracy theory for you).
HEB will get its street closure. They'll open their mini-mart which will serve their own employees and few others. everyone will say "I told you so" about the lack of viability, the wall will still be there. And San Antonio will continue to fail at urban planning.
Castro has long championed the revitalization of downtown to bring us up to par with other cities. A worthwhile goal, IMO.
To what end, other than giving Castro another talking point for his future stump speeches?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka
I'd rather let the market do its work.
It has been doing its work. Those who want to force the opening of a downtown grocery store are wanting to do so in spite of what the market is telling them.
So H-E-B says it doesn't need or want the 1 million dollar incentive to open up a store, but you still are going on about the city paying for a grocery store. They're not. That money is going towards improves to South Flores St.
To what end, other than giving Castro another talking point for his future stump speeches?
Most urban planners across the country agree that a revitalized downtown is good for a city. Many other cities have already done this, San Antonio, esp for a city of this size, has lagged behind. The efforts were started with Phil Hardberger. While Castro has taken this on, he didn't start it, and it's not novel. Our biggest mistake is not looking at other cities' successes and failures.
So H-E-B says it doesn't need or want the 1 million dollar incentive to open up a store, but you still are going on about the city paying for a grocery store. They're not. That money is going towards improves to South Flores St.
The E-N wrote the following (I'm paraphrasing from memory):
H-E-B is proposing that S. Main be closed, from Cesar Chavez (Durango St.) to Arsenal St., for a $100 million dollar expansion of their corporate headquarters and the construction of a grocery store and gas station.
Therefore, the improvements to S. Flores St. (which runs parallel to S. Main) are necessary to accommodate the traffic that will no longer be able to use S. Main. Additionally, traffic volume in the area will necessarily increase, as more people will be trying to access the expanded headquarters and the new grocery store & gas station. In the end, HEB benefits from that money, even if it is not a direct payment from the City.
Our biggest mistake is not looking at other cities' successes and failures.
Our biggest mistake is not looking at our own successes and failures, so that we may learn from those experiences in order to capitalize on our successes and avoid repeating our mistakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka
Most urban planners across the country agree that a revitalized downtown is good for a city.
What, do they claim, are the benefits realized by the citizens of a city with a revitalized downtown?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka
Many other cities have already done this, San Antonio, esp for a city of this size, has lagged behind
That line of thinking is predicated upon the notion that not keeping pace with other cities is, in and of itself, a bad thing. I reject that notion completely, because it's foolish and a violation of public trust to spend tax dollars just to be able to say to the leaders of other cities "yeah, we did that too."
What I want to know is: how will this pie-in-the-sky vision for downtown benefit the citizens of San Antonio?
It won't create many high-paying jobs. Downtown is a tourist destination, and as we all know, most jobs within the service and hospitality industries are low-paying. It also won't discourage existing companies from leaving. When AT&T relocated their corporate headquarters (along with 700 jobs & an untold amount of tax revenue) from San Antonio to Dallas, they didn't mention anything about downtown, where their HQ was located. AT&T Press Release Headlines & News from AT&T
I agree that San Antonio is behind the times in lots of areas. We have many needs that are more pressing, more cost-effective, and that would help San Antonio families that are struggling or needy.
1. Many of our freeways are LONG overdue for expansion; some highways need to be converted to limited-access freeways, some freeway interchanges need to be completely redesigned & rebuilt, Wurzbach Pkwy & 211 still aren't complete, rapid access to medical center is lacking, and in some areas, traffic flow could be improved by simply synchronizing stoplights.
2. Surface streets, sidewalks, and curbs are in disrepair, unusable, or nonexistent in some locations. This makes mobility difficult for pedestrians, bicycle riders, and those who are in wheelchairs or powerchairs, thus exposes the City to the possibility of ADA lawsuits.
3. Our sewer system is in such disrepair that it has drawn the ire of the EPA, along with threat of massive fines.
4. The Deely generating units at the Calaveras power plant need to be converted from coal-burning units into natural-gas fired units. This would create temporary construction jobs, preserve existing jobs at the plant over the long-term, and retain existing generating capacity (currently scheduled to be mothballed in 5 years) in the face of growing demand for electricity.
5. We need to start conducting the environmental and engineering studies for the seawater desalination plant & pipeline that SAWS has *finally* recognized are the only way to reliably supply the area's long-term water needs.
6. We need to implement, and bolster existing, social programs that provide people with the means to advance themselves and their families: literacy, ESL, financial literacy, GED completion, vocational & trade education/certification, need-based college scholarships, expansion of overcrowded schools, etc.
I agree that San Antonio is behind the times in lots of areas. We have many needs that are more pressing, more cost-effective, and that would help San Antonio families that are struggling or needy.
1. Many of our freeways are LONG overdue for expansion; some highways need to be converted to limited-access freeways, some freeway interchanges need to be completely redesigned & rebuilt, Wurzbach Pkwy & 211 still aren't complete, rapid access to medical center is lacking, and in some areas, traffic flow could be improved by simply synchronizing stoplights.
2. Surface streets, sidewalks, and curbs are in disrepair, unusable, or nonexistent in some locations. This makes mobility difficult for pedestrians, bicycle riders, and those who are in wheelchairs or powerchairs, thus exposes the City to the possibility of ADA lawsuits.
3. Our sewer system is in such disrepair that it has drawn the ire of the EPA, along with threat of massive fines.
4. The Deely generating units at the Calaveras power plant need to be converted from coal-burning units into natural-gas fired units. This would create temporary construction jobs, preserve existing jobs at the plant over the long-term, and retain existing generating capacity (currently scheduled to be mothballed in 5 years) in the face of growing demand for electricity.
5. We need to start conducting the environmental and engineering studies for the seawater desalination plant & pipeline that SAWS has *finally* recognized are the only way to reliably supply the area's long-term water needs.
6. We need to implement, and bolster existing, social programs that provide people with the means to advance themselves and their families: literacy, ESL, financial literacy, GED completion, vocational & trade education/certification, need-based college scholarships, expansion of overcrowded schools, etc.
The items you listed aren't, and prioritizing downtown, isn't, mutually exclusive. Many of these items are the domain of different organizations, departments and the product of different funding sources. We don't have to put downtown revitalization on hold because we have a coal power plant, or due to any of the other 1,000 needs of the city that don't make your list. Get a grip.
Our biggest mistake is not looking at our own successes and failures, so that we may learn from those experiences in order to capitalize on our successes and avoid repeating our mistakes.
What, do they claim, are the benefits realized by the citizens of a city with a revitalized downtown?
That line of thinking is predicated upon the notion that not keeping pace with other cities is, in and of itself, a bad thing. I reject that notion completely, because it's foolish and a violation of public trust to spend tax dollars just to be able to say to the leaders of other cities "yeah, we did that too."
What I want to know is: how will this pie-in-the-sky vision for downtown benefit the citizens of San Antonio?
It won't create many high-paying jobs. Downtown is a tourist destination, and as we all know, most jobs within the service and hospitality industries are low-paying. It also won't discourage existing companies from leaving. When AT&T relocated their corporate headquarters (along with 700 jobs & an untold amount of tax revenue) from San Antonio to Dallas, they didn't mention anything about downtown, where their HQ was located. AT&T Press Release Headlines & News from AT&T
I agree that San Antonio is behind the times in lots of areas. We have many needs that are more pressing, more cost-effective, and that would help San Antonio families that are struggling or needy.
1. Many of our freeways are LONG overdue for expansion; some highways need to be converted to limited-access freeways, some freeway interchanges need to be completely redesigned & rebuilt, Wurzbach Pkwy & 211 still aren't complete, rapid access to medical center is lacking, and in some areas, traffic flow could be improved by simply synchronizing stoplights.
2. Surface streets, sidewalks, and curbs are in disrepair, unusable, or nonexistent in some locations. This makes mobility difficult for pedestrians, bicycle riders, and those who are in wheelchairs or powerchairs, thus exposes the City to the possibility of ADA lawsuits.
3. Our sewer system is in such disrepair that it has drawn the ire of the EPA, along with threat of massive fines.
4. The Deely generating units at the Calaveras power plant need to be converted from coal-burning units into natural-gas fired units. This would create temporary construction jobs, preserve existing jobs at the plant over the long-term, and retain existing generating capacity (currently scheduled to be mothballed in 5 years) in the face of growing demand for electricity.
5. We need to start conducting the environmental and engineering studies for the seawater desalination plant & pipeline that SAWS has *finally* recognized are the only way to reliably supply the area's long-term water needs.
6. We need to implement, and bolster existing, social programs that provide people with the means to advance themselves and their families: literacy, ESL, financial literacy, GED completion, vocational & trade education/certification, need-based college scholarships, expansion of overcrowded schools, etc.
Indeed we need sustainability citywide and not just toward select areas which is pretty much the model we had in the past that led us to focusing on improving the suburbs and neglecting the inner-city.
Simply wanting to move back into town and focus on the core but neglecting the rest of the inner-city will not change much except to become more like French cities where it becomes too expensive in the city and the poor are pushed out to the suburbs completely having to bus back into town for work.
San Antonio needs to focus on both the suburbs and the inner-city in a way to make them more cohesive and sustainable overall. Some of the items on your list are easily agreeable to me (1, 2, and 6) while the others are complicated issues unknown to me.
Selective growth at times also seems like a way to line the pockets of developers whether the project grows wings or not. Focusing solely on the core is a risk. Holistic growth is a better bet. The government should help but private investors should fund the bulk of any special projects. Balancing tourists and residents Downtown is more difficult when one party expects the other to fully pay.
The items you listed aren't, and prioritizing downtown, isn't, mutually exclusive. Many of these items are the domain of different organizations, departments and the product of different funding sources. We don't have to put downtown revitalization on hold because we have a coal power plant, or due to any of the other 1,000 needs of the city that don't make your list. Get a grip.
My point was that city/county "leadership" places their wants above our needs.
A revitalized downtown is worthless if nobody can get to it (roadways), or if nobody can afford to spend money there (energy costs).
Indeed we need sustainability citywide and not just toward select areas which is pretty much the model we had in the past that led us to focusing on improving the suburbs and neglecting the inner-city.
And now, they wish to reverse the trend. The suburbs are neglected, and they want to pour resources into downtown, although there are few people who choose to live there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee
Balancing tourists and residents Downtown is more difficult when one party expects the other to fully pay.
That's exactly what they want - they want to use revenue (a lot of which is generated by tourists) to make downtown a place where locals want to live, as opposed to making it easier and more desirable for tourists to access & spend money - and in so doing, continue to neglect the needs of the rest of the area.
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