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Thanks for the insight. The quality of workmanship over there really had me wondering... I noticed things like trim above the front door on one house that wasn't anywhere near close to being flush with the structure (think: .25 gap on one end, 1 inch gap on the other).
I was just there visiting someone - a new house wasn't on my agenda. But I notice things, and between the one area I visited and the signs all over some parts of the city I got curious. They seem to be a big company and it's probably hard to stay on top of subcontractors.
Yeah - you don't see stuff like this in their nicer communities. Unfortunately people think the same standard applies to all their communities. The reality is there are different subcontractors, different building construction managers and different quality levels in each community...just like any other builder.
The Quarry was envisioned as their flagship community with large lots - very open large one story floor plans and premium features. Sadly the neighborhood hasn't sold as quickly as KB would have liked and as a result KB recently changed their product offering and it is now no longer offering the large wide single story floor plans. That said - even as it stands today - it is one of the nicest tract home communities in North Central SA. If you value 16" on center framing, standard four sides brick, large lots, three car garages and a near perfect north central location - the Quarry is hard to beat.
The changed product is narrower and "cheaper" to build for KB by utilizing pre-made trusses/roof and using 24" on center framing for non-load bearing wall as well as making a lot more items upgrades. However, if the Wood of Alon are any indication, they will still look and feel premium and should have the same level of quality as the larger plans that used to be offered there. They should blend in nicely in the neighborhood and allow the community to have a greater variety of home styles.
The changed product is narrower and "cheaper" to build for KB by utilizing pre-made trusses/roof and using 24" on center framing for non-load bearing wall as well as making a lot more items upgrades. However, if the Wood of Alon are any indication, they will still look and feel premium and should have the same level of quality as the larger plans that used to be offered there. They should blend in nicely in the neighborhood and allow the community to have a greater variety of home styles.
There are two new lines - the Trails and the Empire collection. The Trails (the cheaper line) has 24" on center framing for non-load bearing walls and the Empire collection has 16" on center framing. Both are "cheaper" to build than the previous collections - the Liberty and Estate - but have similar pricing and available upgrades. You are correct - the new lines have lower standard features which gives KB more profit from upgrades. The big difference is that the Empire collection has standard three car garages while the Trails are optional.
Having seen the quality of the houses offered in Saddle Mountain, Cobblestone and the Trails at Herff Ranch - I have no doubt that these two new collections - while simpler and cheaper to build than what was originally envisioned for The Quarry - are all built with the same quality. The new houses offered in the Quarry are the same product offered at The Woods of Alon. In addition - some of the Trails collection are offered at Saddle Mountain and Cobblestone.
Thankfully KB has left the original large 1/4 acre lot sizes in tact. So while the new product is 40-45 Feet wide (the Liberty was 50 feet and Estate was 60 feet - before adding optional garages) the houses will have large yards and avoid the tall narrow packed in look of Saddle Mountain or Cobble Stone. And existing home owners that built the more expensive line (like me) will have the more expensive 45 foot wide Empire Collection homes built next to them. The way they (KB) has planned the new homes is Trails Collection homes can be built only next to Empire Collection not the older nicer Liberty or Estates. Because there are so many Estate and Liberty homes with the more custom look and wider elevations - the neighborhood will still retain its premium feel.
All that said - I am disapointed that KB didn't continue building the nicer product. While the Estate line sales had dropped off significantly (due to their very high price and long build time) the Liberty line sold very well.
But I am not loosing sleep over it...I can't wait to move in!! Just a little over a month to go!!
We did buy at a high time in the market, we could barely see houses we wanted they were selling so fast. True alot of the lots are smaller in here at Walker Ranch & I'll never understand why they didn't put in any recreation facilities. We are on a cul de sac & have a large lot. We are moving for several reasons, closer to my sons school(SACS), closer to hubbys work, we hate the hills in here kids can never ride bikes etc(they are young & afraid), I'm a SAHM & I want a neighborhood where there are rec. facilities. Plus I find most of the people in here to be very to themselves, never outside & not many SAHM.
[quote=banker;3588143]
Having seen the quality of the houses offered in Saddle Mountain, Cobblestone and the Trails at Herff Ranch - I have no doubt that these two new collections - while simpler and cheaper to build than what was originally envisioned for The Quarry - are all built with the same quality.
Pretty much KB and other track builders build their homes to code or at least attempt to everytime they build a home. The quality of the structure of the home at the Quarry compared to their lower line houses will be the same. They use the same exterior sheathing, same pre-built truss manufacturer, etc. With maybe the exception of 16" on center for the interior walls, which doesn't cost very much...2x4 are cheap and so is the labor.
What you pay for are the standard upgrades, kitchen cabinets, exterior non structural looks i.e. brick, stone, and most of all it is the location, location, and location.
For example, I talked to KB's cabinet contractor they tell me they provided the quality cabinet manufacturer line to 90% of the builders in San Antonio. The only difference between the cabinets placed in their top of the line homes as compared to their lower lines that offer maple or oak cabinet facing is that the glazed look costs about 10-15% more than the standard cabinet.
The structure of the cabinet is the same. Addtionally, KB with most of their home lines, can't tell you specifically about the Quarry, will forget to put in a cabinet or wall of cabinets. This is one of their cost cutting ways to save money. I just paid $600 to install a cabinet and associated crown over my refridgerator. Another thing builders don't do, add a panel at the ends of the cabinets so that they match the face of your cabinets...costs $275 a piece for a solid maple end panel.
It looks like KB tried to do something at the Quarry and really offer non box homes, but it didn't work out and they have gone back to their 40-45 foot fronts like they do with their Hallmark brand, but offer some additional elevations and an extra garage.
My recomendation is to buy a Hallmark, and just get structural options i.e. extended porch, 5th bedroom, 9ft ceilings, electrical upgrades, kitchen cabinet upgrades, and plumbing upgrades. Spend 200K and then put $35k in upgrades and get you hardwood floors, stone flooring, appliances, crown molding, etc. You will have a home tailored to what you want, and not limited to the builders options which will cost you a ton of money. Not to mention that you will be paying only property tax on 200K not 235K.
I made the mistake of paying KB 4K for tile work. If I was smart I could had have a bigger tile installed for the same amount of money or stone installed for not much more. Now I find myself in the situation of removing all the carpet in the home replacing it with solid bamboo for the stairs and downstairs carpet area and putting in a 35year laminate with cushion backing for the upstairs..didn't want the upstairs noise that you would get with a solid hardwood upstairs. I want to replace my formal dining room tile with either stone or extend out my bamboo floor but have a hard time trying to do that when I paid $2500 for the tile in that room.
Having seen the quality of the houses offered in Saddle Mountain, Cobblestone and the Trails at Herff Ranch - I have no doubt that these two new collections - while simpler and cheaper to build than what was originally envisioned for The Quarry - are all built with the same quality.
Pretty much KB and other track builders build their homes to code or at least attempt to everytime they build a home. The quality of the structure of the home at the Quarry compared to their lower line houses will be the same. They use the same exterior sheathing, same pre-built truss manufacturer, etc. With maybe the exception of 16" on center for the interior walls, which doesn't cost very much...2x4 are cheap and so is the labor.
What you pay for are the standard upgrades, kitchen cabinets, exterior non structural looks i.e. brick, stone, and most of all it is the location, location, and location.
For example, I talked to KB's cabinet contractor they tell me they provided the quality cabinet manufacturer line to 90% of the builders in San Antonio. The only difference between the cabinets placed in their top of the line homes as compared to their lower lines that offer maple or oak cabinet facing is that the glazed look costs about 10-15% more than the standard cabinet.
The structure of the cabinet is the same. Addtionally, KB with most of their home lines, can't tell you specifically about the Quarry, will forget to put in a cabinet or wall of cabinets. This is one of their cost cutting ways to save money. I just paid $600 to install a cabinet and associated crown over my refridgerator. Another thing builders don't do, add a panel at the ends of the cabinets so that they match the face of your cabinets...costs $275 a piece for a solid maple end panel.
It looks like KB tried to do something at the Quarry and really offer non box homes, but it didn't work out and they have gone back to their 40-45 foot fronts like they do with their Hallmark brand, but offer some additional elevations and an extra garage.
My recomendation is to buy a Hallmark, and just get structural options i.e. extended porch, 5th bedroom, 9ft ceilings, electrical upgrades, kitchen cabinet upgrades, and plumbing upgrades. Spend 200K and then put $35k in upgrades and get you hardwood floors, stone flooring, appliances, crown molding, etc. You will have a home tailored to what you want, and not limited to the builders options which will cost you a ton of money. Not to mention that you will be paying only property tax on 200K not 235K.
I made the mistake of paying KB 4K for tile work. If I was smart I could had have a bigger tile installed for the same amount of money or stone installed for not much more. Now I find myself in the situation of removing all the carpet in the home replacing it with solid bamboo for the stairs and downstairs carpet area and putting in a 35year laminate with cushion backing for the upstairs..didn't want the upstairs noise that you would get with a solid hardwood upstairs. I want to replace my formal dining room tile with either stone or extend out my bamboo floor but have a hard time trying to do that when I paid $2500 for the tile in that room.
Saying one KB house is as good as any other KB house despite being in nicer communities is like saying a Lexus LS460 is the same quality as a Toyota Corolla. If your thinking their high end product is no different from their cheaper houses - then you are mistaken. Yes - they have similar suppliers but the craftmanship is worlds apart - just like Lexus/Toyota or Chevy/Cadillac. This is a case where you get what you pay for and KB has gone over and above to show me and the many other buyers that have spent near a half million dollars that these homes are high quality and worth the money.
The other item that makes these communities stand apart is the large lots with many native trees. The community is not stacked in on each other like so many (including KB's cheaper offerings) other builders.
We did buy at a high time in the market, we could barely see houses we wanted they were selling so fast. True alot of the lots are smaller in here at Walker Ranch & I'll never understand why they didn't put in any recreation facilities. We are on a cul de sac & have a large lot. We are moving for several reasons, closer to my sons school(SACS), closer to hubbys work, we hate the hills in here kids can never ride bikes etc(they are young & afraid), I'm a SAHM & I want a neighborhood where there are rec. facilities. Plus I find most of the people in here to be very to themselves, never outside & not many SAHM.
Best of luck in your efforts. I didn't know that they didn't put in a community recreation area in Walker Ranch - that would be a big down side. Do they have HOA dues since they have no pool?
The Quarry has a great recreation area and pool. The HOA dues are reasonable considering how small the pool is - $450.00 per year. And so far I know of two other SAHM (Stay at Home Moms?) besides my wife on the street we are building. Our last neighborhood had lots of SAHM which was great for my wife. We are looking forward to getting to know the families in our new community and the other SAHM for my wife to get to know. Best of luck in selling your house.
It does not look like they offer any more than 2.5 bathrooms. Can you add more bathrooms. It seems silly to have such a large house and only 2 baths.
What? They have several plans with the option of more than 2.5 bathrooms. The house I am building is a four bedroom 3.5 bath house - granted it is one of the now discontinued floor plans..but I know they offer more than 2.5 baths in some of their homes. Specifically:
- The Great Western has standard 2.5 with an option to make the half a full for three full bathrooms.
- The Russian has standard 2.5 with an option to make the half a full for three full bathrooms.
- The Old South has standard 2.5 with an option to make the half a full for three full bathrooms.
- The Persian has standard two baths with an option for a third bath in the loft upstairs.
- The Roman has standard 2.5 with an option for a third bath to bring the total to 3.5 baths.
- The British has standard 2.5 with an option to make the half a full and add a fourth upstairs to bring the total to four full bathrooms.
The numbers listed on the initial floor plan list are just the standard layout. My house had a standard 2.5 to which we added one bath. We could have converted the half to a full to have four full bathrooms but we wanted a powder room so we will have 3.5 baths.
wow sounds nice. How big are the average lots there?
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