SA- America's 5th largest city? Could be.... (San Antonio, Anton: low crime, gated community)

[prim8]

Originally Posted by L210

They still have to send law enforcement, EMS, and fire to the outer edges of the county. Some of those gated communities have been a pain in the butt for BCSO. Gated communities aren't any safer than non-gated communities. They actually have the added danger of gate codes that are constantly changing and can sometimes delay emergency services.

I already have Law Enforcement, EMS and Fire here, so the city providing it in the future isn't an added benefit to me.

I'd dispute that gated communities aren't any safer. There's an additional bottleneck making it slightly more difficult to get in, also there are cameras at the gate and we can check who came in.
Our community has so far proven much safer than one we are connected to that doesn't have gates.

[Deep Forest]

Originally Posted by smuboy86

Laws can always be changed, especially easy in Texas if it sounds like unions support them.

Conversely, it also means that these laws may not be changed either seeing as Texas is a "Right To Work" state (meaning weak labor involvement).

[smuboy86]

Originally Posted by Deep Forest

Conversely, it also means that these laws may not be changed either seeing as Texas is a "Right To Work" state (meaning weak labor involvement).

That was the point I was making, police/ city employees unions like the laws that let them live where they want. It would be easy to build a smear anti union campaign to repeal the legislation.

[L210]

Originally Posted by prim8

I already have Law Enforcement, EMS and Fire here, so the city providing it in the future isn't an added benefit to me.

That wasn't the point. The point was that the city will have to take on the burden of providing these services to the annexed areas. Your original response to me was that the city won't have to provide anything for the gated communities. That is not true.

I'd dispute that gated communities aren't any safer. There's an additional bottleneck making it slightly more difficult to get in, also there are cameras at the gate and we can check who came in.
Our community has so far proven much safer than one we are connected to that doesn't have gates.

Risk of crime in gated communities -- ScienceDaily


Prevention of Crime: An Overview of Gated Communities and Neighborhood Watch - International Foundation for Protection OfficersInternational Foundation for Protection Officers

Gated communities don't make us safer. So why do we buy into it? - Las Vegas Weekly

Gated communities: Gates don't make communities safer - Sun Sentinel

[ged_782]

Originally Posted by prim8

I already have Law Enforcement, EMS and Fire here, so the city providing it in the future isn't an added benefit to me.

Originally Posted by L210

That wasn't the point. The point was that the city will have to take on the burden of providing these services to the annexed areas. Your original response to me was that the city won't have to provide anything for the gated communities. That is not true.

I think the argument that is being made, is that residents in unincorporated areas already have those services provided by the County, or by private providers. If they get annexed, the City starts levying property taxes, and then assumes responsibility for most, if not all of those services. But the residents will argue that they will still be paying County taxes, even after annexation.

On another note, I read in the paper a couple of days ago, that County Judge Nelson Wolff is accusing the City of San Antonio of dragging their feet on incorporating these areas, so it does indeed sound like the County is behind this effort, more so than the City.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by ged_782

On another note, I read in the paper a couple of days ago, that County Judge Nelson Wolff is accusing the City of San Antonio of dragging their feet on incorporating these areas, so it does indeed sound like the County is behind this effort, more so than the City.

Right you are. I posted the link to that article upthread.

It's not the city that's trying to lasso you county folks, kicking and screaming, all the way into its corral of taxes and regulation.

It's the county, admitting it doesn't have the resources to serve remote subdivisions adequately and asking the city to let you into said corral.

[prim8]

Originally Posted by L210

That wasn't the point. The point was that the city will have to take on the burden of providing these services to the annexed areas. Your original response to me was that the city won't have to provide anything for the gated communities. That is not true.

They're certainly gaining a benefit of the tax dollars to pay for it or they wouldn't be doing it.
I'd prefer they didn't, because I'm not gaining anything.

Originally Posted by L210

Risk of crime in gated communities -- ScienceDaily
Research published this month in the journal Justice Quarterly confirms that homes in gated communities are subjected to fewer burglaries than those in non-gated communities.

Sweet, thanks for proving my point!

Risk of crime in gated communities -- ScienceDaily
However, there is evidence that these communities not only push crime to other, less secure, neighbourhoods, but also present an increased risk of other crimes, including "intimate partner violence."

That's the point, I want the criminals to stay out of my community and if they insist on being detriments to society, they do it somewhere else.
Neither my wife or I are at much risk for hurting each other.

Originally Posted by L210

Prevention of Crime: An Overview of Gated Communities and Neighborhood Watch - International Foundation for Protection OfficersInternational Foundation for Protection Officers
The property values of gated communities are also higher than those outside the walls. Some real estate experts estimate that the gates can easily add $50,000 or more to property values...
The major question that is asked of gated communities is “Do they really keep crime rates down?” The answer seems to be yes, but only by very little.

Score!

Prevention of Crime: An Overview of Gated Communities and Neighborhood Watch - International Foundation for Protection OfficersInternational Foundation for Protection Officers
In gated communities, the trend is that crimes against the person go down and stay down in controlled access developments. This occurs because perpetrators do not want to go to an area that they are unfamiliar with and where it might be hard for them to make an escape. “According to preliminary research, crimes such as burglary drop in the first year or so of gating, but then rise back to the level of the areas outside”(Diamond 4).

So at worse it's the same according to this. My experience in my community and the one directly connected (but gated off) is that their crime is worse and we've had very few incidents. Even less graffiti which the first link suggested would rise.

Is a gated community a safe haven? Not necessarily, but we change our codes often, we have many cameras on both gates and the Sheriff patrols nearby since it's a hotspot for speeders. We're a small community, with a fairly tightknit group of neighbors.

We already have police, we already have fire fighters, we pay for our own trash pickup at modest cost.
Even if we got rid of the gates, it's already been made clear that we'd still have to pay to maintain our own roads so explain to me the benefits to me of paying extra taxes for trash pickup? I really don't see it.

This is a win for the City, but certainly not for us.

[ged_782]

Originally Posted by prim8

We already have police, we already have fire fighters, we pay for our own trash pickup at modest cost.
Even if we got rid of the gates, it's already been made clear that we'd still have to pay to maintain our own roads so explain to me the benefits to me of paying extra taxes for trash pickup? I really don't see it.

Trash and recycling pickup in the City Of San Antonio is tacked on to your CPS Energy bill. Currently, it's $21.93 for me. So, you would still be paying separately for that service, in this case, you would be paying the City, on top of your property taxes, for that service, instead of a private company.

[smitty12]

Originally Posted by ged_782

I think the argument that is being made, is that residents in unincorporated areas already have those services provided by the County, or by private providers. If they get annexed, the City starts levying property taxes, and then assumes responsibility for most, if not all of those services. But the residents will argue that they will still be paying County taxes, even after annexation.

On another note, I read in the paper a couple of days ago, that County Judge Nelson Wolff is accusing the City of San Antonio of dragging their feet on incorporating these areas, so it does indeed sound like the County is behind this effort, more so than the City.

If county services are anywhere near as good as City services in the unincorporated areas, then that is a huge subsidy to those unincorporated areas from the incorporated ones. Everyone pays equal property taxes in Bexar county for Bexar county services, while much of that service is utilized in unincorporated areas.

Any dense suburban area should become incorporated either through annexation or creating their own cities. That is the only fair way to provide professional Police and Fire service. BCSO should not be thought of as nor provide the services of a professional city police force.

If that county service is too good then the citizens of the county who live in incorporated areas should vote in Commissioners court members who will defund BCSO and County Fire services until it is painful enough to those in unincorporated areas to want incorporation.

[smitty12]

Originally Posted by ged_782

I think the argument that is being made, is that residents in unincorporated areas already have those services provided by the County, or by private providers. If they get annexed, the City starts levying property taxes, and then assumes responsibility for most, if not all of those services. But the residents will argue that they will still be paying County taxes, even after annexation.

So does everyone else in the County pay County taxes. Why do people in unincorporated areas think those tax dollars should be used to provide Professional City style services to them? Hint: They shouldn't.