John Jay football players behaving badly (San Antonio, Anton: how much, university, haircuts)

[smuboy86]

I love the double talk coming from some people. "Teens need to respect all authority" "um the coach in authority told them to do it". "Teens need to know when to act independently and stand up for themselves!" You can't have it both ways.

[Seguinite]

Now that reports are out that the principal met with the head coach in his car after the game that night and everyone knew THEN that the assistant coach told the boys to do it, I'm even more disappointed in the way the whole thing was handled. Or not handled, as the case may be. For this story to come out two weeks after the fact is shameful. I've felt all along they should've fired the assistant immediately, and the head coach should've resigned on his own because he's clearly not in control of his program. And now I think the principal needs to go because he knew all along and sat on it. And if they were 'advised' to keep quiet by someone in the district, THOSE people need to go.

This story has gotten a whole lot of press... and not a bit of it speaks well of San Antonio.

[sapphire]

I read this afternoon that he's now recanting that statement.

UIL hearing: Jay assistant resigns, must face board to coach in Texas

[Paka]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

Now that reports are out that the principal met with the head coach in his car after the game that night and everyone knew THEN that the assistant coach told the boys to do it, I'm even more disappointed in the way the whole thing was handled. Or not handled, as the case may be. For this story to come out two weeks after the fact is shameful. I've felt all along they should've fired the assistant immediately, and the head coach should've resigned on his own because he's clearly not in control of his program. And now I think the principal needs to go because he knew all along and sat on it. And if they were 'advised' to keep quiet by someone in the district, THOSE people need to go.

This story has gotten a whole lot of press... and not a bit of it speaks well of San Antonio.

^^^^^^^^^ This!

[L210]

The Supreme Court has determined that juveniles shouldn't face certain punishments, such as the death penalty, because they have reduced culpability. It is a scientific fact that teenagers and young adults do not have the ability to reason at the level of adults around 25 and older. Insurance rates are higher for those under 25 because they are more likely to engage in risky driving and, therefore, get into more accidents. The prefrontal cortex is not fully-developed until the mid-20s. Does that mean that they shouldn't be punished? No. Does that mean that they are less culpable than adults? Yes.

Statutory rape laws are also based on the fact that juveniles cannot reason at the level of adults. Legally, they are seen as not being able to give consent when involved in sexual relationships with adults because they don't have the same mental capacity and can be easily manipulated by someone much older. If it is true that the ref made those types of comments, then I wouldn't worry about getting hit like that as a ref because I wouldn't make those types of comments in the first place. In general, when you insult people like that, you lose respect which is a major component of authority figure status.

Also, physical altercations among teenagers are very common.

A 1999 national survey of high school students found that in the past year:

More than 1 in 3 students had been in a physical fight;
About 1 in 7 had been in a physical fight on school property; and
About 1 in 9 of those who fought had been hurt badly enough to need medical treatment.1

Physical Fighting Among Teenagers - Student Safety Center

Almost half of adolescent males acknowledge they've been in a fight during the previous year.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Kg...fought&f=false

[TXStrat]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

Now that reports are out that the principal met with the head coach in his car after the game that night and everyone knew THEN that the assistant coach told the boys to do it, I'm even more disappointed in the way the whole thing was handled. Or not handled, as the case may be. For this story to come out two weeks after the fact is shameful. I've felt all along they should've fired the assistant immediately, and the head coach should've resigned on his own because he's clearly not in control of his program. And now I think the principal needs to go because he knew all along and sat on it. And if they were 'advised' to keep quiet by someone in the district, THOSE people need to go.

This story has gotten a whole lot of press... and not a bit of it speaks well of San Antonio.

Agreed. It's makes a pretty sad statement when the first actions of the adults involved in the situation is to collude to concoct a story to save their own backsides, and, as an after thought, possibly do something to protect the players. The failures in this case are multiple. A coaching staff that created a climate that led to 4 players being ejected from a single game, and 2 players overtly targeting an official. Players trying to use an excuse they were "ordered" to take out the official. Allegations of racial slurs introduced as some form of an excuse. The assistant coach now recanting his earlier admission saying he was concerned about potential punishment for the students, but didn't think his initial statement would be used in an "official" capacity. Paints a pretty bad picture of the climate created by Coach Gutierrez and his staff. Even more sad that school administrators at Jay HS, and Northside ISD staff seem to have gone along with this series of excuses and were very lenient on the two players involved with hitting the official. There have been cases where students guilty of dress code infractions or swearing were given 90 days in the AEP. Northside said they were treating the actions of the 2 players as an assault on a school official. Apparently, in Northside ISD, that only gets you 75 days at the alternative campus, with credit for time served. Bottom line, the coaching staff needs to be replaced. No excuses. The UIL should have ended the season John Jay. The 2 players that hit the ref should never participate in UIL events again. Yes, there were failures with the coaching staff, but the players know better than to attack a game official. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

[prim8]

Originally Posted by L210

The Supreme Court has determined that juveniles shouldn't face certain punishments, such as the death penalty, because they have reduced culpability. It is a scientific fact that teenagers and young adults do not have the ability to reason at the level of adults around 25 and older. Insurance rates are higher for those under 25 because they are more likely to engage in risky driving and, therefore, get into more accidents. The prefrontal cortex is not fully-developed until the mid-20s. Does that mean that they shouldn't be punished? No. Does that mean that they are less culpable than adults? Yes.

Statutory rape laws are also based on the fact that juveniles cannot reason at the level of adults. Legally, they are seen as not being able to give consent when involved in sexual relationships with adults because they don't have the same mental capacity and can be easily manipulated by someone much older. If it is true that the ref made those types of comments, then I wouldn't worry about getting hit like that as a ref because I wouldn't make those types of comments in the first place. In general, when you insult people like that, you lose respect which is a major component of authority figure status.

Also, physical altercations among teenagers are very common.


Physical Fighting Among Teenagers - Student Safety Center


https://books.google.com/books?id=Kg...fought&f=false

The above and if the coach did in fact tell them to do it, is why I think they should get probation instead of jail time.
I also don't think they should be rewarded by being able to continue to play HS sports. If they want to go to Community College and play football there, and they work hard and get noticed by a 4 year school, more power to them. I think for HS they should be done.

Originally Posted by smuboy86

I love the double talk coming from some people. "Teens need to respect all authority" "um the coach in authority told them to do it". "Teens need to know when to act independently and stand up for themselves!" You can't have it both ways.

I missed where anyone said they should blindly follow any authority figure. There's also a rather large difference between respecting the referee and doing what the assistant coach said when you KNOW it is wrong.
At the risk of sounding like an old codger; personal responsibility is far too rare these days.
Now get off my lawn.

[cbeltran428]

Originally Posted by sapphire

I read this afternoon that he's now recanting that statement.

UIL hearing: Jay assistant resigns, must face board to coach in Texas

Wow, this is getting really dumb. All this guy managed to do was make the situation worse, especially for himself.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by L210

The Supreme Court has determined that juveniles shouldn't face certain punishments, such as the death penalty, because they have reduced culpability. It is a scientific fact that teenagers and young adults do not have the ability to reason at the level of adults around 25 and older. Insurance rates are higher for those under 25 because they are more likely to engage in risky driving and, therefore, get into more accidents. The prefrontal cortex is not fully-developed until the mid-20s. Does that mean that they shouldn't be punished? No. Does that mean that they are less culpable than adults? Yes.

Statutory rape laws are also based on the fact that juveniles cannot reason at the level of adults. Legally, they are seen as not being able to give consent when involved in sexual relationships with adults because they don't have the same mental capacity and can be easily manipulated by someone much older. If it is true that the ref made those types of comments, then I wouldn't worry about getting hit like that as a ref because I wouldn't make those types of comments in the first place. In general, when you insult people like that, you lose respect which is a major component of authority figure status.

Also, physical altercations among teenagers are very common.


Physical Fighting Among Teenagers - Student Safety Center


https://books.google.com/books?id=Kg...fought&f=false

We get it teens are dumb and aggressive to other teens.

How many teens in these studies attack adults?

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

We get it teens are dumb and aggressive to other teens.

How many teens in these studies attack adults?

Not many teens attack adults and I doubt these two ever did until the coach told them to do so (or not). It was definitely planned between them two at the very least.

It is all getting confusing to me now what really happened and am getting tired of how much publicity this is getting. It is one story I wish that would go away.