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Old 08-05-2017, 07:05 PM
 
2,721 posts, read 4,362,510 times
Reputation: 1536

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Great post. I don't like Ivy either. I just did not like how the River barge issue ended. It was
openly handled like a Haliburton non bid award.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
I didn't know that Ivy Taylor enslaved a whole race of people and wrote a declaration of secession that mostly talked about how they were inferior and didn't deserve equality. I know a lot of people don't like her, but she isn't that evil.



They could have fooled me. I guess white nationalist groups waste time protesting these things because they don't care? They don't have anything better to do?

 
Old 08-05-2017, 07:19 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
5,287 posts, read 5,741,292 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckster View Post
A local movement......sure. Entire Cities are in error. Regions are even in error.
I suppose all the other cities that have removed such repulsive mementos of that ugly period when people kept each other in chains and then even killed their own brothers to keep their falsely elevated status by force, needs mementos of the valor it took to follow blindly.
Lest we forget and we chain our brothers again.
Sure.
It is far more than two San Antonio council members. Sister city New Orleans just removed the ideas of a false worship of such wrong headed and immoral ideals. Stupid.
This is a historical trend that is happening everywhere down here. Let us face up to it- it was a bad idea. Cement mementos? Get over it. Never mind the loathing the monuments require of African Americans in their own home. This does not need commemoration. So.....
In order to retain political correctness for the people that that are not content- a statue of Trent Lott should be raised downtown.
The famous unfortunate career ruining untoward remarks of Lott happened well after the civil war times so he would not be regarded in the same light by those of us that do not need reminders of a time so oppressive.

It was a lesson so hard learned that statues commemorating slavery endorsement are needed ? Sure.

Yes indeed, Trent Lott alongside a statue of Santa Anna. Two bad ideas commemorated and in this way all local parties will be satisfied. Like a balanced political ticket these would satisfy everybody.
Lest we forget. Statues for both ideas.

If the fifty five thousand casualties from the battle at Gettysburg alone weren't enough for those of us hard headed enough not to have learned a lesson, not to mention the centuries of oppression and misery for those unfortunate of us that were whipped and chained- then these will never recall anything without a statue raised to it?
These are the ones that would enlist again.
Maybe a statue for Benedict Arnold would be appropriate too. Lest we forget.
Wonderful. I try to get my points out this eloquently, but I'm not quite there yet.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 07:26 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
7,105 posts, read 11,747,687 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Some states wrote in their declarations of secession that one of the reasons why they were seceding was slavery. Texas was one of them. It was actually Texas' main reason. The people who don't know that didn't study history. Obviously, looking at statues didn't teach them anything. You have to honor people with statues in order to remember history? I've never heard of that. I guess we should erect more statues to honor everyone in history whether they were good or bad because we don't have books, the Internet, and history classes.
Horse manure. Texas seceded more because of the growing tendency of the industrial northern states to pass legislation that inhibited the ability of commerce to grow in the increasingly industrial southern states, and to treat the south as backwards bumpkins - something that still exists in a large part today.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: USA
4,426 posts, read 5,299,747 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunion Powder View Post
Wonderful. I try to get my points out this eloquently, but I'm not quite there yet.
Either is he. Most people pass on his paragraphs of babble. Half the time they are not even on topic.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:19 PM
 
Location: USA
4,426 posts, read 5,299,747 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
I didn't know that Ivy Taylor enslaved a whole race of people and wrote a declaration of secession that mostly talked about how they were inferior and didn't deserve equality. I know a lot of people don't like her, but she isn't that evil.



They could have fooled me. I guess white nationalist groups waste time protesting these things because they don't care? They don't have anything better to do?
You really missed the point. Sad but you seem clueless to my post. Take it in a holistic approach and you might get it but I won't hold my breath.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:21 PM
 
Location: USA
4,426 posts, read 5,299,747 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
What do racial slurs have to do with any of this? I just don't see how people not wanting to honor those who wanted to enslave their people and treat them like sub-humans is playing the race card. You may not agree with them, but that's all there is to it. It's not playing the race card. No one is asking people to delete the Confederacy from history. It's honestly not covered well enough, and people aren't learning about history by looking at monuments.
Your logic and flawed and not really useful for this dicussion.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:27 PM
 
7,005 posts, read 12,415,779 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynetwo View Post
You really missed the point. Sad but you seem clueless to my post. Take it in a holistic approach and you might get it but I won't hold my breath.
All I saw was the slippery slope fallacy in your post, which is inherently illogical. Pretty useless. You have no logical argument for keeping the statues up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynetwo View Post
Your logic and flawed and not really useful for this dicussion.
Right, because being called a "cracker" is the same as being treated like an animal and being denied basic human rights simply because of the color of your skin. African Americans had to endure hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred years of having their constitutional rights denied after being "freed." If African Americans can survive that without getting the support that other wronged groups received, then I'm sure the snowflakes will survive after the statues of their Confederate heroes are taken down.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:39 PM
 
Location: USA
4,426 posts, read 5,299,747 times
Reputation: 4114
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
All I saw was the slippery slope fallacy in your post, which is inherently illogical. Pretty useless. You have no logical argument for keeping the statues up.



Right, because being called a "cracker" is the same as being treated like an animal and being denied basic human rights simply because of the color of your skin. African Americans had to endure hundreds of years of slavery and a hundred years of having their constitutional rights denied after being "freed." If African Americans can survive that without getting the support that other wronged groups received, then I'm sure the snowflakes will survive after the statues of their Confederate heroes are taken down.
What are you talking about? Again you missed the point.

Get that chip off your shoulder and throw it through your Austin apartment window.

Never said cracker and would never equate that to slavery. Even an orphaned, poor, first generation migrant would know that.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 09:41 PM
 
7,005 posts, read 12,415,779 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynetwo View Post
All of this just so some people feel safe from something that happened over a hundred years ago. You do realize that a racist does not give two sh$&@ about a monument. They don't walk by a statue and hate more. Finally? Where were all these offended people before? Nothing has changed for the worse in the last twenty years.
Why does any movement happen at any time? Movements rarely pop up out of nowhere. Movements get going when they gain enough support. Wanting to remove Confederate symbols from public spaces is not new. You just haven't been paying attention. There was just more support from politicians after the Charleston church shooting. I'm sorry that you're offended by people not wanting to pay taxes to maintain and secure these monuments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynetwo View Post
What are you talking about? Again you missed the point.

Get that chip off your shoulder and throw it through your Austin apartment window.

Never said cracker and would never equate that to slavery. Even an orphaned, poor, first generation migrant would know that.
You responded to a post that was in response to someone who said "cracker." You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Austin because it is completely irrelevant to this topic.
 
Old 08-05-2017, 10:30 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
7,105 posts, read 11,747,687 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Then, how come they dedicated most of their declaration to slavery and the inferiority of Africans? The real revisionists are the ones romanticizing the Confederacy and minimizing the influence of slavery on some states' decisions to secede because they think there is an attack on their white ancestors. Would we call that white people playing the race card? I think not. People like Azure110 think that playing the race card is something that only people of color do.
There was little slavery in Texas - in fact, many segments of Texas were largely populated by those the eschewed slavery, and found it an abomination. At the same time, you have to recognize and evaluate folks against the backdrop of the norms of their times - not ours. Our family has been in Texas (on my Mom's side) since the 1830's, and never owned slaves, nor did they condone it. There were many others of the same mind. What they DID object to was the ongoing attempts to throttle the growth of southern businesses - especially in the manufacturing sector. It's no secret that the industrialized north was very concerned with a growth of industry in the south, and were anxious to stunt it in any way possible.
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