SA spends 1 million on lawsuit with Firefighters (San Antonio, Anton: 2015, house)

[huckster]

The CITY ain't broke. Firefighters are risk takers, it is not about the money it is about whom loses their life and who lives trying to serve and protect. Remuneration should be according to value of service.
These are more deserving than CEO's and Human Resources and Bean Counters that sit on their fat butts
drinking coffee and eating doughnuts.

Originally Posted by Azure110

Union folks always think every cent is earned, even if it breaks the bank for their employers so I am not surprised you would think that way.

As I said earlier, I do feel firefighters should be paid accordingly for their work and risks involved but it has to be reasonable to the employer (and taxpayer in this case).

[TrapperL]

Well I see we have some biased opinions but are clueless about the facts. The issue is about the Evergreen Clause. So a few think this is a bad deal. Did you know that without the Evergreen Clause, there would be NO fireman at the stations? The Evergreen Clause allows the firefighters to keep working at their current wages and benefits for up to ten years while a new contract is being negotiated. As of now, the City will not give the Firefighters Union a contract as they want the Evergreen Clause written out. So next time the City decides it doesn't like something in a contract, the firefighters will have no alternative but to walk out. Is that what you want?
There are a lot of people that are mostly indirectly responsible for our lives. Doctors are probably more directly responsible but a firefighter saves lives, just like that doctor. Same for a policeman. Yet we pay these people a paltry wage by comparison. You have to work for 61 months as a firefighter to get the full pay package. Any of you work that long to be fully vested? Even at that, they get just under 60 grand a year compared to a doctor that averagely makes $300,000. + a year in SA. That's not hitting the lottery by any stretch of the imagination. But then you want to deny them that when their contract expires. In order to attract more and better firefighters, we need to treat these people with the respect due them. And they aren't getting it from our people downtown who seems to want to spend more money on attorneys than the people that are protecting us. It makes you wonder just where their fiduciary is. Is it to the taxpayer/voter or is it to their own wallet? The lawsuit has already been labelled frivolous. It stands next to no chance in the Texas Supreme Court. The lawsuit makes no sense unless there's back door dealings going on.

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

Did you know that without the Evergreen Clause, there would be NO fireman at the stations?

I don't understand this statement in particular....is this a fact or your opinion? Can you elaborate?

[Bo]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Hmmm....my foggy memory w/regards to Contract Law didn't allow an "out" because those currently bound weren't part of the original contract signing.

Oh, I agree that there's a contractual obligation that persists beyond the tenure of the original CoSA leaders who took the deal. I just disagree with the notion that the current batch of folks in charge are responsible for taking the lousy deal.

Good lawyers can often find a way out of contracts. I want the city's lawyers to keep trying to find one. The payoff is worth it.

If anyone thinks this POV is hardhearted, it's not like the city is trying to make the firefighters go without benefits. If the deal can be unwound, they'll get benefits that are more in line with the current market for benefits.

[TrapperL]

I don't understand this statement in particular....is this a fact or your opinion? Can you elaborate?

The firemen are working with no contract with the city. The Evergreen Clause guarantees them the same wages and benefits as per the previous contract. They've been working with no contract since 2014. If it wasn't for the Evergreen Clause there would be no contract, no wages, no firemen. And once these firemen move on to other cities that are paying more, it will take years before we get that experienced base back. In my opinion, it seems there is a push to bust the union. While I do not like unions, there are some that are still needed, like the Firemens Association.

[huckster]

Union Contracts are sacrosanct. Many times more than one million dollars has been spent contesting union contracts. Hell, loss of life has occurred over them.
I can guarantee that. Let the bigots try to chip away. Hell, mail carriers get federal pensions. Civil Service, Crooked businessmen and Lobbyists and bureaucrats do not get "what is in line with current benefits".
Baloney. The cost of doing business as a firefighter is far higher than most. So. The Ante must be upped, raised for these people. Beyond what is "good enough for most" because; Most all do not do what they do for a living.
Most all, I get in the mail is junk mail. A delivery service for waste paper. Firefighters is not the place to bandy about with Evergreen Clauses and pensions. Not on the cheap with those who risk their lives for
the public good. One gets what one pays for. Don't forget. What is next, privatization? Volunteers?

I find contentiousness over police and firefighter pensions, humorous.

Originally Posted by Bo

Oh, I agree that there's a contractual obligation that persists beyond the tenure of the original CoSA leaders who took the deal. I just disagree with the notion that the current batch of folks in charge are responsible for taking the lousy deal.

Good lawyers can often find a way out of contracts. I want the city's lawyers to keep trying to find one. The payoff is worth it.

If anyone thinks this POV is hardhearted, it's not like the city is trying to make the firefighters go without benefits. If the deal can be unwound, they'll get benefits that are more in line with the current market for benefits.

[Azure110]

Pro-union babble doesn't help this thread at all.

One has to wonder if any of the council members, city manager, or city mayor at the time had some kind of connection to the firefighters union when this contract was passed.

[TrapperL]

council members, city manager, or city mayor at the time had some kind of connection to the firefighters union when this contract was passed.

You apparently weren't here for the last contract negotiations. The city did not negotiate with good intentions and it was extremely apparent. It got pretty bloody. The Evergreen Clause is from the battle previously and is why the firefighters are not going to drop it. And I don't blame them. The city pretty much threw out what it wanted to pay which wasn't much and it was a take it or leave it kinda offer. You don't treat the folks putting their lives on the line for you that way. As I see it, nothing has changed downtown when it comes to our police or firefighters. It's the same nasty rhetoric with nothing happening only this time they've managed to screw off nearly a million of our tax dollars on a lawsuit they've been told they can't win. You need to remember this come election time but it seems everybody is just willing to go on with their lives and this doesn't matter. Just wait until the firefighters walk out and your house is on fire. I bet you'd get involved then.

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

The firemen are working with no contract with the city. The Evergreen Clause guarantees them the same wages and benefits as per the previous contract. They've been working with no contract since 2014. If it wasn't for the Evergreen Clause there would be no contract, no wages, no firemen. And once these firemen move on to other cities that are paying more, it will take years before we get that experienced base back. In my opinion, it seems there is a push to bust the union. While I do not like unions, there are some that are still needed, like the Firemens Association.

Ok. I see what you are trying to say now. Thank you for the clarification.

[huckster]

Yes, screwing off a million dollars in frivolous lawsuits....surely trap , there are a lot of backwards people in this vicinity that know not a thing about labor contracts that love to write nonsense and waste money.
A favorite past time of the unschooled.
Let them spout away here. Hilarious.........
A million dollars is a tidy sum. Keep a goin'.

Originally Posted by Azure110

Ok. I see what you are trying to say now. Thank you for the clarification.