SA spends 1 million on lawsuit with Firefighters (San Antonio, Post: construction, salary)

[L210]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

LEO's "enjoy" a high divorce and suicide rate, and can be sued penniless by any citizen with a beef - and as has been shown time and again (thanks to camera systems), the accusations are often groundless. I have NO issue with a rogue cop being sued - but all too often, the false accusations made against LEO's aren't punished.

I have a son that's an LEO. He's currently sitting on 400 hours of "comp time" (which is max), because they don't have the budget to pay him OT. He's got 384 hrs of vacation time due him (which is max), because they don't have the budget to hire more officers so he can actually USE his vacation time. He's also accrued over 300 hrs of sick time - and often goes in even though he's sick, because they're short-staffed. Tell me what other job can say "sorry, we can't pay you for your OT". He continues to do his job because he cares about the citizens he's sworn to protect, just as many other officers and firefighters do. When the guy doped out of his mind is in the middle of the street, swinging the machete and threatening to impale that little girl, it's men and women like him that will give up their own lives to save hers.

And according to this study, Texas nonfatal injury rates in 2015 were led by Police....

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/pr156tx.pdf

There are a lot of jobs that don't pay overtime and aren't required to by law. I worked three jobs where I got comp time instead of overtime and none of them were police officer jobs.

I actually worked for a law enforcement agency as a corrections officer and was a part of the same union as the deputies. As long as we paid our dues, our legal fees were covered. There are also other pre-paid legal companies people can utilize. An individual officer being sued is not as common as you make it seem. There are also other professions that are commonly sued.

Yes, the work can be dangerous, but there are lower paying occupations with higher death rates. What people don't know is that police sometimes don't search their arrestees well allowing them to come into jails with guns and knives that corrections officers end up finding. In a lot of departments, corrections officers have no weapons to protect themselves. If there's an emergency, they have to run to a room and collect less lethal weapons (preferred term over non-lethal) such as pepper ball guns. Some departments won't even allow corrections officers to wear stab vests even though bullet proof vests are encouraged and sometimes required for police officers. Even if corrections officers are allowed to wear stab vests, hardly any department supplies them, and most officers can't afford them.

The link you posted provides no context. The stats are for non-fatal injuries and illnesses, not just injuries. As far as suicide rates, the CDC only tracks categories and not specific professions. The group with the highest suicide rate does include firefighters, police officers, and...wait for it...corrections officers. Once again, I don't hear anyone talking about the low salaries corrections officers are paid.

Police officers are also not the only ones to enjoy high divorce rates.

http://lexfridman.com/divorce-rates-by-profession/

[Azure110]

I always thought if a cop gets sued by a citizen and wins (for on duty misconduct) then the government has to pay it out through us taxpayers, not the cop himself. Not sure how the cop being sued will be left "penniless"...unless the cop loses his job as well. Usually when this happens, the union pays the lawyer fees as well.

[L210]

I did some investigating, and the Texas Department of Insurance pulls its stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It makes a difference when you separate illnesses and injuries. Police officers do not have the highest non-fatal injury rate.

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshsum.htm

[huckster]

If a company's gross earnings is less than $350,000.00 annually it is not required in Texas to pay overtime to its' employees , the last I recall This monetary sum may have changed over time.
It is a sneaky, crooked way to not have pay over time to employees for some business people. They can just form a subsidiary to a large parent company ,- claim the subsidiary is earning less than that amount and not have to pay overtime. I have seen this done, and very happily by the employer.

Originally Posted by L210

There are a lot of jobs that don't pay overtime and aren't required to by law. I worked three jobs where I got comp time instead of overtime and none of them were police officer jobs.


I actually worked for a law enforcement agency as a corrections officer and was a part of the same union as the deputies. As long as we paid our dues, our legal fees were covered. There are also other pre-paid legal companies people can utilize. An individual officer being sued is not as common as you make it seem. There are also other professions that are commonly sued.

Yes, the work can be dangerous, but there are lower paying occupations with higher death rates. What people don't know is that police sometimes don't search their arrestees well allowing them to come into jails with guns and knives that corrections officers end up finding. In a lot of departments, corrections officers have no weapons to protect themselves. If there's an emergency, they have to run to a room and collect less lethal weapons (preferred term over non-lethal) such as pepper ball guns. Some departments won't even allow corrections officers to wear stab vests even though bullet proof vests are encouraged and sometimes required for police officers. Even if corrections officers are allowed to wear stab vests, hardly any department supplies them, and most officers can't afford them.

The link you posted provides no context. The stats are for non-fatal injuries and illnesses, not just injuries. As far as suicide rates, the CDC only tracks categories and not specific professions. The group with the highest suicide rate does include firefighters, police officers, and...wait for it...corrections officers. Once again, I don't hear anyone talking about the low salaries corrections officers are paid.

Police officers are also not the only ones to enjoy high divorce rates.

Divorce Rates by Profession | Lex Fridman

[CyVaquero]

Originally Posted by huckster

If a company's gross earnings is less than $350,000.00 annually it is not required in Texas to pay overtime to its' employees , the last I recall This monetary sum may have changed over time.
It is a sneaky, crooked way to not have pay over time to employees for some business people. They can just form a subsidiary to a large parent company ,- claim the subsidiary is earning less than that amount and not have to pay overtime. I have seen this done, and very happily by the employer.

That's a pretty low threshold IMHO. 10 employees at minimum wage is $145K+employer tax contributions (don't feel like looking that up ATM). Once you figure in non-labor costs there's not much (if anything) left for the business owner. I think this loophole really only affects businesses with 5 or less employees or those with next to nothing operating costs.

[huckster]

When the City of Detroit filed Bankruptcy a few years ago it was completely broke. Destitute. In the middle of the great Recession it was hard times indeed. The Auto Industry was bankrupt too. The news broke that former City employees had to give concessions in their pension plans. Had to. Had to.
The City had simply no money to dole out. It was really stupid, retirees were living a fantasy and there were a lot of Detroit City retirees that fell into hard times because of it. Former city employees had to rely on S.S. and a fraction only of their former Pension Benefit. SO broke was Detroit that the Fireman's Boots famously had holes in them, literally.
60% of street lamps were burned out , police calls took sometimes hours for a response. City services were non-existent. Yet. City Parks went without mowing and not cared for. Streets without repair.

The Fireman's and Policeman's pensions went untouched.

Originally Posted by Bo

I care and I want the city manager to keep trying to win this one. Benefits are a large portion of the city budget. How many millions will be saved annually if the city wins this lawsuit?

OP is trying to shock us with that million-dollar figure, but remember that most of us have to pay an increasing amount for our families' benefits. So I don't think there will be much public support for keeping a benefits deal from the 90s, a whole decade before the national health insurance landscape was upended, in place. The rest of us don't have a deal like that.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by huckster

When the City of Detroit filed Bankruptcy a few years ago it was completely broke. Destitute. In the middle of the great Recession it was hard times indeed. The Auto Industry was bankrupt too. The news broke that former City employees had to give concessions in their pension plans. Had to. Had to.
The City had simply no money to dole out. It was really stupid, retirees were living a fantasy and there were a lot of Detroit City retirees that fell into hard times because of it. Former city employees had to rely on S.S. and a fraction only of their former Pension Benefit. SO broke was Detroit that the Fireman's Boots famously had holes in them, literally.
60% of street lamps were burned out , police calls took sometimes hours for a response. City services were non-existent. Yet. City Parks went without mowing and not cared for. Streets without repair.

The Fireman's and Policeman's pensions went untouched.

That anecdote should increase our appreciation of the City Manager's efforts here.

If you follow local elections, the candidates endorsed by the Police and Fire unions often don't win. San Antonio is not the union bastion that Rust Belt cities like Detroit are. We appreciate their work, but we're not giving them the keys to the treasury.

[huckster]

Often, lately more than ever, Democratic union backed candidates don't win elections. This has nothing to do with Cop or Firefighter's Ins. and Pensions. Unions did not back Trump at all.
Yet Trump won the blue collar rust belt vote against union endorsements. For a jobs promise. It happens all of the time.
San Antonio is the liberal and Democratic bastion of Texas. Usually.
The Mayor of Detroit is a white guy. Explain that.

The public sector unions of Detroit lost the fight against losing their pensions and Paid Medical insurance.
All, all of them , made big concessions, Save the Firefighters and Cops. No pun intended.
On the Mi Statewide level, teachers and State employees did also. Make Concessions. Except cops and you know who else.

Politicians cannot be trusted, I think you are under the misapprehension that they are to be.
San Antonio is in nowhere near the economic mire Detroit is in. Nowhere.

Originally Posted by Bo

That anecdote should increase our appreciation of the City Manager's efforts here.

If you follow local elections, the candidates endorsed by the Police and Fire unions often don't win. San Antonio is not the union bastion that Rust Belt cities like Detroit are. We appreciate their work, but we're not giving them the keys to the treasury.

[Seguinite]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

... They're throwing huge amounts of money at it. That same money could have been earmarked for the firefighters and probably had a lot of money left over.

Maybe the city manager could tighten her belt and quit taking pay raises.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

Maybe the city manager could tighten her belt and quit taking pay raises.

If her efforts enable the city to win this lawsuit, she deserves another one. It'll save the city millions of dollars.

Maybe nobody has considered the kinds of things the city will have to stop doing if it has to devote a much higher percentage of the budget to benefits? Tired of seeing so much street and sidewalk repair? Had your fill of new police and fire stations?