Any new small (1,200 sq ft or less) single level homes for $140,000 or under available in San Antonio? (Howe: sales, mortgage)

[txbullsfan]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

San Antonio was in the top third metros for wage growth over the past ten years. The data just doesn’t fit people’s feelings.

According to Forbes we were the 5th fastest growing wage metro.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/eijd...for-fastest-w/

I'm not sure about feelings regarding this but while I enjoy Forbes and read their articles often, the link you provided just lists a pretty picture of San Antonio, no data. Its important to take multiple perspectives and articles into account when researching.

San Antonio may be experiencing wage growth but this needs to show a big asterix next to it. SA wages were below average before the growth and even after the growth, the wages remain below average. The growth is very small as well. About 2 percentage points.

Increasing someones pay to $2 per day from $1 per day shows double growth and Forbes (or any website) can say, Look! at this wage growth. However, when really look at it, one will find that the payment of $1 per day or $2 per day is still insufficient when say $3 or $4 per day is needed. Besides, percentage growth usually always looks bigger when dealing with smaller numbers. Take the fact that SA only had a 2% growth on top of the fact that this small growth was already from low wage numbers and you can see why this is not good.

Here is some data from the Bureau of labor statistics:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwes...sanantonio.htm

The first table shows that San Antonio is averaging -7.863% wage below the national average

The second table shows the average hourly wage is $17.78 per hour or $37001.18 salary per year

No, someone making $37,000 per year, which is not even the low end, its the average, can not afford a very small $165,000 house.

Home prices have skyrocketed over the past 10 years and the median price home is $230,000.
https://www.zillow.com/san-antonio-tx/home-values/

Here is another link showing that while wages have increased to a degree, this increase is only coming off of the fact that wages bottomed out. Even with the increase now, its still below 2014 levels:

https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwes...sanantonio.pdf

So that is a lot of data, what is the moral of the story?

1. SA Wage growth is small to non existent (minimum wage up to approx $17 per hour)
2. SA wage growth is too small to make a substantial difference
3. The majority of local wages can not afford a very small new home at $165,000
4. The majority that can not afford a small new home is left with used homes
5. The median price of homes is $230,000 which is even more then buying a small new home
6. Out of state residence moving from more affluent states in the country are buying out properties (sometimes cash) and competing with local wage buyers
7. The majority of local wage buyers can not compete based on the wage they are making
8. There will be negative consequences for locals because of this

While there are "diamonds in the rough", if the majority of locals can not afford $165,000 for a small new home, how can they buy another type of home when they are averaging even more at $230,000? Just wait and keep looking to get lucky and find that "diamond in the rough" while competing with SA locals as well as the many people all over the nation flocking here as well I suppose.

Its a sellers, not a new home buyers market FO SHO!

If anyone does know of a "diamond in the rough", minus the rough neighborhood, please PM. Still haven't gotten any legitimate PMs. Still looking just like I have for a few years.

[Azure110]

Gotta wonder where Forbes is getting their data from for their opinion piece article?

[huckster]

OF Course you are right. Txtea. The husband and wife must work together towards a common end. It is this way all over. The days of the one breadwinner family are mostly long gone.
The Data is accurate though. In Texas your regular Joe or Josephine is at a disadvantage,
the cards are rigged against you. Everything pertaining to labor with few exceptions,
,civil service etc., is put together in Texas by law so that it is impossible to live here without being poor.
It is true. This is exactly how the movers and shakers of Texas like it. Keep em' poor. Make as much money as possible. It is ridiculous. Stats aren't needed. One has to save for a very ,very long time to buy a house around here, else be very frugal to purchase
a home.
Something has to give.

You can spit out all the "data" you want...it's still not accurate for me and I'll bet most of the people that have been working here for years.[/quote]

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by txbullsfan

I'm not sure about feelings regarding this but while I enjoy Forbes and read their articles often, the link you provided just lists a pretty picture of San Antonio, no data. Its important to take multiple perspectives and articles into account when researching.

San Antonio may be experiencing wage growth but this needs to show a big asterix next to it. SA wages were below average before the growth and even after the growth, the wages remain below average. The growth is very small as well. About 2 percentage points.

Increasing someones pay to $2 per day from $1 per day shows double growth and Forbes (or any website) can say, Look! at this wage growth. However, when really look at it, one will find that the payment of $1 per day or $2 per day is still insufficient when say $3 or $4 per day is needed. Besides, percentage growth usually always looks bigger when dealing with smaller numbers. Take the fact that SA only had a 2% growth on top of the fact that this small growth was already from low wage numbers and you can see why this is not good.

Here is some data from the Bureau of labor statistics:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwes...sanantonio.htm

The first table shows that San Antonio is averaging -7.863% wage below the national average

The second table shows the average hourly wage is $17.78 per hour or $37001.18 salary per year

No, someone making $37,000 per year, which is not even the low end, its the average, can not afford a very small $165,000 house.

Home prices have skyrocketed over the past 10 years and the median price home is $230,000.
https://www.zillow.com/san-antonio-tx/home-values/

Here is another link showing that while wages have increased to a degree, this increase is only coming off of the fact that wages bottomed out. Even with the increase now, its still below 2014 levels:

https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwes...sanantonio.pdf

So that is a lot of data, what is the moral of the story?

1. SA Wage growth is small to non existent (minimum wage up to approx $17 per hour)
2. SA wage growth is too small to make a substantial difference
3. The majority of local wages can not afford a very small new home at $165,000
4. The majority that can not afford a small new home is left with used homes
5. The median price of homes is $230,000 which is even more then buying a small new home
6. Out of state residence moving from more affluent states in the country are buying out properties (sometimes cash) and competing with local wage buyers
7. The majority of local wage buyers can not compete based on the wage they are making
8. There will be negative consequences for locals because of this

While there are "diamonds in the rough", if the majority of locals can not afford $165,000 for a small new home, how can they buy another type of home when they are averaging even more at $230,000? Just wait and keep looking to get lucky and find that "diamond in the rough" while competing with SA locals as well as the many people all over the nation flocking here as well I suppose.

Its a sellers, not a new home buyers market FO SHO!

If anyone does know of a "diamond in the rough", minus the rough neighborhood, please PM. Still haven't gotten any legitimate PMs. Still looking just like I have for a few years.

Your conclusions are wrong.

Someone is buying all of these houses and renting all these expensive apartments that are popping up all over the city. They don’t build houses in a market that cannot afford to buy them.

FYI wages are a growing faster than the national average.

https://www.dallasfed.org/-/media/Do...7/sa170622.pdf

[huckster]

I Don't believe this statistic. The average wage is not the same as the median wage.
The median wage is certainly not $24.00 per hour around here.
Relocatees are buying housing.

Originally Posted by rynetwo

Your conclusions are wrong.

Someone is buying all of these houses and renting all these expensive apartments that are popping up all over the city. They don’t build houses in a market that cannot afford to buy them.

FYI wages are a growing faster than the national average.

https://www.dallasfed.org/-/media/Do...7/sa170622.pdf

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by huckster

I Don't believe this statistic. The average wage is not the same as the median wage.
The median wage is certainly not $24.00 per hour around here.
Relocatees are buying housing.

Huck, are you going to argue with the people that have access to the data? The info was from the Dallas Federal Bank. Prove it wrong or just write some other random wall of text.

[Azure110]

The Dallas Fed data sheet discusses average wages, not median.

People tend to forget that the average wage data can be greatly skewed also. Not so much the median wage data though. It is basic statistics 101 knowledge.

Here is some median data:

The ACS 1-year data shows the median family income for San Antonio was $66,789 in 2016. Compared to the median Texas family income, San Antonio median family income is $236 lower. As with the median household income data, 2017 family income data for San Antonio will be released in September of 2018.

Source: http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/texas/san-antonio/

[Montirob]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

Huck, are you going to argue with the people that have access to the data? The info was from the Dallas Federal Bank. Prove it wrong or just write some other random wall of text.

As Huckster and Azure110 mentioned, and per the U.S. Census:

"Average and median values are measures of central tendency of distributions. For symmetric distributions, the average and median values are the same. For skewed distributions, however, the average and median values differ. The distribution of net worth is skewed with a concentration of households with low values andvery few households with high values. In this case, the median is less than average net worth; the large proportion of values at the low end bring themedian down, while less frequent but large values increase the average." (Publication P70-88)

(Yes, I know this paragraph is talking about net worth, but the concept is the same)

So... have incomes in SA increased at a faster rate compared to the U.S.? Yes, but the chart doesn't truly mean that half of SA makes at least $23.53 an hour. Instead, most SA workers make LESS than this amount.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Montirob

Instead, most SA workers make LESS than this amount.[/font][/color]

I would submit that the same would be true of the other measured markets, as well. A LOT of the "affordability" needs to be weighed against the lifestyle of those involved. I see a LOT of "working poor" with $150/mo cable and $200/mo cell phone bills, etc.. Those funds could be redirected to provide $$$ for buying a home.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Azure110

The Dallas Fed data sheet discusses average wages, not median.

People tend to forget that the average wage data can be greatly skewed also. Not so much the median wage data though. It is basic statistics 101 knowledge.

Here is some median data:



Source: San Antonio Texas Household Income | Department of Numbers

Originally Posted by Montirob

As Huckster and Azure110 mentioned, and per the U.S. Census:

"Average and median values are measures of central tendency of distributions. For symmetric distributions, the average and median values are the same. For skewed distributions, however, the average and median values differ. The distribution of net worth is skewed with a concentration of households with low values andvery few households with high values. In this case, the median is less than average net worth; the large proportion of values at the low end bring themedian down, while less frequent but large values increase the average." (Publication P70-88)

(Yes, I know this paragraph is talking about net worth, but the concept is the same)

So... have incomes in SA increased at a faster rate compared to the U.S.? Yes, but the chart doesn't truly mean that half of SA makes at least $23.53 an hour. Instead, most SA workers make LESS than this amount.

All the data I am finding still supports median income on 23-24 dollars.

San Antonio, TX has a population of 1.47M people with a median age of 33.1 and a median household income of $48,869. Between 2014 and 2015 the population of San Antonio, TX grew from 1.44M to 1.47M, a 2.3% increase and its median household income grew from $45,339 to $48,869, a 7.79% increase.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-in-the-us/