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Old 03-25-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: North Central
59 posts, read 202,512 times
Reputation: 23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekka-maki View Post
...does not mean left turn on arrow only. If it's green and there are no cars coming, it's o.k. to turn.
That's only true if there is no dedicated left turn lane. What I find strange and odd (dangerous too) is how the center dividers (islands) are designed to make opposing cars making left turns to pass one another thru the island. So instead of immediately turning when the island opens up, you keep going forward and criss cross with the opposing side.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:55 PM
 
1,518 posts, read 2,753,585 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired-&-going-back-2-CA View Post
That's only true if there is no dedicated left turn lane. What I find strange and odd (dangerous too) is how the center dividers (islands) are designed to make opposing cars making left turns to pass one another thru the island. So instead of immediately turning when the island opens up, you keep going forward and criss cross with the opposing side.
Not true on two accounts. 1st, if you see a sign that says left turn yield on green, it is implying that you can indeed turn, else this DoT sign would not be there, and instead should read: left turn on [green] arrow only OR there would be a dedicated turning light w/ dedicated turn lane, but the latter is incidental because there are dedicated turn lanes whereby you CAN turn when there is no green arrow (but a green light). My 1st example immediately comes to mind (dedicated underpass left turn lane @ Bandera and 410).
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:58 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,519,768 times
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I think it is also worth mentioning that when at a redlight;when the signal turns green you can proceed only after yielding to traffic already in the intersection. Green does not mean go;you have the right of way.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:05 PM
 
Location: North Central
59 posts, read 202,512 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekka-maki View Post
Not true on two accounts. 1st, if you see a sign that says left turn yield on green, it is implying that you can indeed turn, else this DoT sign would not be there, and instead should read: left turn on [green] arrow only OR there would be a dedicated turning light w/ dedicated turn lane, but the latter is incidental because there are dedicated turn lanes whereby you CAN turn when there is no green arrow (but a green light). My 1st example immediately comes to mind (dedicated underpass left turn lane @ Bandera and 410).
I've never seen a 'left turn yield on green' sign for a dedicated left turn lane. I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't come across one yet. Regardless, the whole system here needs revamping IMO.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: West Creek
1,720 posts, read 4,487,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRose View Post
Yes! My dad taught me this when I was learning to drive. It always annoys me when I sit through a light (or two, or three) because the person in front of me doesn't do this.

Tehcnically your not supposed to leave the Limit Line untill its safe to do so, when you are Yielding youre supposed to give up the right of way not approach and pressure them to move it or youll turn right in front off them. I saw an accident simmilar to what youre talking about, and even though the guy was the one that hit the old lady, the old lady was not supposed to be there (Line Violation) and the cop declared her at fault, man did she throw a fit, but then We had to explain it to them because the cop didnt know what the hell he was talking about (i guess he was new).
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: West Creek
1,720 posts, read 4,487,079 times
Reputation: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired-&-going-back-2-CA View Post
I've never seen a 'left turn yield on green' sign for a dedicated left turn lane. I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't come across one yet. Regardless, the whole system here needs revamping IMO.

Lets start at the DOT, if you fail a test they can go back and re take the next day. what did they learn? nothing they are just guessing it, and they actually get surprised when the obselete testing systems passes them.
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:57 PM
 
1,518 posts, read 2,753,585 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired-&-going-back-2-CA View Post
I've never seen a 'left turn yield on green' sign for a dedicated left turn lane. I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't come across one yet. Regardless, the whole system here needs revamping IMO.
They're all over... I pass at least a couple just on my drive from Marbach and Ingram to 36th and Culebra every day. We are both talking about a lane you turn into when you approach the stop light that is exclusively for turning left right?

Either way you look at it, it renders your 1st point moot, since I was only referring to lanes that DO have a 'left turn yield on green sign'. Maybe it's good that you pointed that out that you can't simply turn at some lights though... may give some folks the wrong suggestion (although I don't think the peeps that don't turn when they could come to city-data.com but I digress).

As far as the road infrastructure side of things in S.A. though, I like it very much compared to what I'm used to. Now if only we had a Lightweight Rail and/or commuter to Austin (another thread)!
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,314 posts, read 3,162,759 times
Reputation: 848
Default Everything you ever wanted to know about left turn signals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired-&-going-back-2-CA View Post
I've never seen a 'left turn yield on green' sign for a dedicated left turn lane. I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't come across one yet.
Sure, there are plenty. I can name a half dozen just in the Medical Center.

Folks, it's not whether there is a dedicated left lane or not, it's the type of signal and accompanying signage (if any.) If there is a left turn signal that includes both protected (arrow) and permissive (circular) signals (a signal with 5 signal heads), then the accompanying sign usually will read "left turn yield on green O" (where "O" is a green ball). At these intersections, you are allowed make a left turn when the circular green light is on if there is no oncoming traffic (thus the reason they call it a permissive left.) When the green arrow is on, then your turn is protected, meaning the opposing traffic has a red light. (As a footnote, some cities are experimenting with a flashing yellow left arrow signal instead of a circular green light to indicate a permissive left turn.)

At intersections where there is a protected left but no permissive left (a left turn signal with just three signal heads), then the left turn signal will be red when left turns are not allowed and left turning traffic must wait behind the stop bar and can only turn left on a green arrow. The signage here is either "left turn signal" or "left on green arrow only".

Finally, some intersections have no dedicated left turn signal; left turning traffic can only turn when the through signal is green and must yield to on-coming traffic. These intersections may or may not have a dedicated left turn lane; regardless, the rule is the same. (Unless, of course, there is a "no left turn" sign.)

By the way, if the signs are absent, drivers are still expected to obey the signals anyway. The signs are simply put up as reminders for drivers about yielding or to clarify which signals are dedicated for left turns. However, the placement of left turn signals usually makes it obvious that they are intended for that purpose, so the signs are purely informational.

Quote:
Regardless, the whole system here needs revamping IMO.
Traffic signals and signage in San Antonio conforms with the Texas Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices, which is a knockoff of the federal manual of the same name, so everything here essentially conforms to the national standards. That said, as another poster indicated, San Antonio has far too many protected-only left turn signals. I spoke with a traffic engineer from the city a while back and he agreed and said that, over time, they are replacing protected-only signals with protected-permissive signals where appropriate. That usually depends on visibility and traffic issues. A good example is Wurzbach and Evers. Three of the four left turn signals are protected-permissive. The one protected-only left signal is due to the fact that there is a hill just a few yards across the intersection from it which blocks the view of oncoming traffic.

As for changing out protected-only to protected-permissive, a great example is the Medical Center. Most of the left turn signals in the Medical Center used to be the protected-only and have been switched over to the protected-permissive during recent intersection reconstruction projects. Only at the two intersections with dual-left turn lanes are there still protected-only (which is required for safety purposes.) And, interestingly, most of those new protected-permissive signals use "Dallas phasing", where the left turn for both directions is permissive during the entire phase for that street, even if the the through signal for one or both directions is still red due to the opposite left turn being protected. I've seen many drivers get confused by this, thinking that they have a protected left even though the arrow isn't on and the sign clearly reads "left turn yield on green O". But Dallas phasing was developed to improve left turn efficiency at intersections and to prevent the "left turn trap", where vehicles waiting in the intersection may get trapped if their signal turns red while the opposing signal is still green.

Phew, that was a lot of typing.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:20 PM
 
Location: North Central
59 posts, read 202,512 times
Reputation: 23
Again, I still think they need to make major changes. Why? Because there is no consistency in how everything is designed.
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:05 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,314 posts, read 3,162,759 times
Reputation: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired-&-going-back-2-CA View Post
Again, I still think they need to make major changes. Why? Because there is no consistency in how everything is designed.
Sure there is. Give some specific examples and how you would change them.
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