Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 05-25-2022, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,430 posts, read 86,526,431 times
Reputation: 131279

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynetwo View Post
Another useless thread on CD so some key board warriors can feel good they said something.

Where there is a will there is way. Once people get that through their thick skulls you will understand. We cannot take back that there are 400 million guns here, but since they are stop proposing asinine ideas.

He was mad at his grandma and decided to kill everyone in one classroom. Not sure how you "solve" for that.
Well, since it's impossible to take back 400 million guns, the next step will be preventative measures - building schools like this:
https://futurism.com/the-byte/school...uilding-design
teaching kids how to hide and survive possible shootings and other school violence.
Build fear, paranoia, mistrust and animal instincts (to be on a constant outlook for a catastrophic danger), conduct drills and teach surviving skills.
Poor kiddos, what a bright future!

 
Old 05-25-2022, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
61,430 posts, read 86,526,431 times
Reputation: 131279
Are active shooter drills scaring kids or protecting them? Some schools are taking a new approach. Probably more will follow.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...t-them-n992941
 
Old 05-25-2022, 09:55 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
7,120 posts, read 11,791,487 times
Reputation: 8013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbcfy View Post
Somewhat agreed here with some clarifications.

Anyone with 10 minutes of training with an AR style weapon is going to outgun 3 trained police officers armed with handguns. It's just a simple tactical reality.

The shooter had to be taken out by a BORTAC unit that just happened to be in the area. They were the only ones that had the firepower and manpower necessary to take out an AR armed barricaded individual in a classroom. An SRO in these types of situations is simply security theater.

Note that he was not wearing body armor - he simply had a tactical vest that was used to hold ammo for his weapon. He was carrying 300+ rounds of ammo.

The simply reality is we've tried nothing as a society, and we're all out of ideas.
1. Your presumption on 3 LEO's being "outgunned" by someone with an AR without training is inaccurate, especially in close-quarters fighting, where the longer barrel and bulk of the AR can be a hindrance. At close quarters, the longer range capabilities of the AR are nullified.

2. The shooter was taken out by a lone federal officer, who charged in disregard for his personal safety. The BORTAC unit was present, but not responsible for the final ending.

3. We've yet to seriously explore securing the schools properly and providing the armed guards that we should. And again - we need to explore allowing vetted, trained school personnel to be armed, as well.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 06:57 AM
 
Location: MQ Ranch, Menard, Texas
294 posts, read 358,570 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
1. Your presumption on 3 LEO's being "outgunned" by someone with an AR without training is inaccurate, especially in close-quarters fighting, where the longer barrel and bulk of the AR can be a hindrance. At close quarters, the longer range capabilities of the AR are nullified.
You are completely wrong and have no idea what you are talking about. And your theory would turn on it's head the argument that a long guns are excellent firearms for home defense.

Someone armed with a long gun, moving on offense, has a massive informational and situational advantage, they know exactly whats going on and what they're doing. Right out of the gate an officer with a 9mm handgun is armed with a far less powerful and accurate weapon, especially at any distance, and will have to reload at least twice as many times during engagement. And we haven't even addressed the ballistics aspects of handgun vs. rifle ammunition. And.... after maybe 3 reloads they're done for the day. This guy had 300+ rounds with him.

The realities and facts of this incident bear that out. The shooter plowed through 3 LEOs, and got into the classroom and barricaded himself in there for FOURTY MINUTES. Law enforcement was relegated to evacuating the rest of the school. Once he got into that classroom and locked the door, the fate was sealed for everyone in that room.

Quote:
2. The shooter was taken out by a lone federal officer, who charged in disregard for his personal safety. The BORTAC unit was present, but not responsible for the final ending.
I'm going to concede that I do not know the exact details on how he was taken out, other than it took 40 minutes before staff provided a key to the classroom and law enforcement stormed the room and shot and killed the guy.

Quote:
3. We've yet to seriously explore securing the schools properly and providing the armed guards that we should. And again - we need to explore allowing vetted, trained school personnel to be armed, as well.
There was already an armed LEO on campus. 2 other LEOs engaged the guy before he made it into the school. What more do you want?

That's pretty much the reason arming random teachers and administrators as tactical response is a horrible idea in practice. It's uncommon even for a police officer to have a valid reason to draw their weapon. And they have a lot of training to identify those situations and how to respond to them.

Even if the random civilian (teacher, admin etc) knew what to do with the weapon, they simply wouldn't get the kind of useful practice of such scenarios to be able to respond effectively. They'd be more likely to hurt themselves or a bystander than the killer if they tried to confront them. And that shooter is going to immediately target them anyway if they are armed. Arming teachers would provide nothing of value other than to add another potential dangerous weapon to a school and classroom environment. If LEOs can't protect the school in these situations, what makes you think Mrs. Krabappel is going to accurately light up some guy that storms into the classroom with an AR and starts shooting? It's ridiculous as it sounds.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 07:13 AM
 
6,693 posts, read 8,744,294 times
Reputation: 4846
I just found out today that one of the little girls killed was the daughter of a guy I graduated from high school with. I haven't spoken to the guy in years as I have lost touch with many people I went to high school with (it happens). Really sad.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 07:18 AM
 
6,693 posts, read 8,744,294 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure110 View Post
I do feel that some of the local LEO in Uvalde are going to catch some heat for the outcome. I mean you can't always prevent the bad actions of people but I do feel it could have been stopped before so many children and teachers died. (but then I wasn't there so I am just going off media reports and videos)....
The local police in Uvalde is getting a lot of bad reviews and publicity now for not storming in sooner than later when the shooting started. There are reports that the parents were very close to taking matters in their own hands while the police just sit outside the building because you know...all bets are off when it comes to their own children.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 07:29 AM
 
Location: MQ Ranch, Menard, Texas
294 posts, read 358,570 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
2. The shooter was taken out by a lone federal officer, who charged in disregard for his personal safety. The BORTAC unit was present, but not responsible for the final ending.
Further details on this were released this morning, and you're confirmed wrong.

Uvalde is home to a large Border Patrol station, which has a QRF (BORTAC). They responded to the scene when they heard about the shooting, and a QRF of 3 BORTAC members with a shield got a master key from the administration, opened the classroom, and engaged the shooter. The agent holding the shield took rounds, the second agent was shot, and the third BORTAC agent shot and killed the suspect.

You might want to sit this one out TexasRedneck. Everything from your policy recommendations to your knowledge of the situation is off the mark entirely.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 07:56 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
7,120 posts, read 11,791,487 times
Reputation: 8013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbcfy View Post
Further details on this were released this morning, and you're confirmed wrong.

Uvalde is home to a large Border Patrol station, which has a QRF (BORTAC). They responded to the scene when they heard about the shooting, and a QRF of 3 BORTAC members with a shield got a master key from the administration, opened the classroom, and engaged the shooter. The agent holding the shield took rounds, the second agent was shot, and the third BORTAC agent shot and killed the suspect.

You might want to sit this one out TexasRedneck. Everything from your policy recommendations to your knowledge of the situation is off the mark entirely.
It always amazes me how folks want to drop to personal attacks....

I was basing my comments re the officer on updated reports - sounds like they may have been updated yet again. I'll reserve comment until I have seen them for myself - right now, the story line is (understandably) VERY fluid.

You have a perp barricaded in a closed room with only one point of entry - of course he's going to have a tactical advantage, and I'm sure the officers going in knew that they were going to take hits....difference being, they continued to advance - much to their credit.

Now.....take the same scenario with a staff member present as the shooter entered the school. He may well have been able to have stopped the attack then and there. But we'll never know, will we? But as has been borne out time and again - armed bystanders can often stop an attack in the early stages. And before you can froth at the mouth again....it's ALWAYS going to be on a case-by-case basis, because each situation IS going to be different. NONE of us were there, so we have no definitive way of saying how things might have been done different at this point. Bottom line is that you had a punk that willfully shot his own grandmother in the face, then went on the attack against defenseless children.....I hope he rots in hell.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 08:05 AM
 
6,693 posts, read 8,744,294 times
Reputation: 4846
When the lives of many children are at stake, I wouldn't fault an officer for having disregard for his own safety.
 
Old 05-26-2022, 08:38 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
7,120 posts, read 11,791,487 times
Reputation: 8013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure110 View Post
When the lives of many children are at stake, I wouldn't fault an officer for having disregard for his own safety.
Absolutely - it's the TYPICAL reaction of a good LEO (the FL cop being a flagrant example of a BAD LEO).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top