Why doesn’t San Antonio have a light rail system? (airport, authority)

[malcorub16]

Ideally, the route would start somewhere downtown and then go North to UTSA. My imaginary light rail line would go mostly up Fredericksburg Road. Maybe the line can be elevated in most spots to not disrupt vehicular flow by very much.

Downtown station
UTSA Downtown Campus
San Antonio College/San Pedro Springs Park (the VIA Metro Transit Admin Building is near hear as well)
Up Fredericksburg Rd for multiple stops.
Medical Center especially for veteran access to VA.
USAA Campus
Security Service Campus
UTSA Main Campus

I'm sure I am not the only one to think of this route that would connect the UTSA campuses. Another line could be one connecting downtown to the airport going mostly up Broadway.

Downtown station
The Pearl Area
Brackenridge Park/SA Zoo
University of Incarnate Word Campus
Up Broadway for multiple stops.
SAN International Airport

I can see Alamo Height residents fighting this second light raill line tooth and nail as it would connect them to downtown.

For the Southside, Zarzamora to Nogalitos would be ideal as it could connect Palo Alto College and Texas A&M San Antonio to downtown.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

Might be interesting to see the rider age demographics for the DART trains.

Having it connect the colleges and universities to downtown might be a good way of getting young people accustomed to using public transit which in turn makes them more accepting of public transit as they age.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Pancho-Villa

It was a joke , sir You'll probably find a way to debate and/or force an argument as always. One of the reasons that this forum is dead. I think this will be my last post as well.

Sorry - I took it as an honest response, and tried to reply in kind. There wasn't any antagonism - just an honest opinion. I have ridden mass transit (buses, subways and trains) in much of the US and Europe. We forget that much of the areas served by mass transit have high population densities, and centralized business districts - San Antonio does not, by and large - and that's where it falls apart. Essentially, there's just not that many folks in one area wanting to go to another specific area. Unfortunately, I just don't see that changing in SA in the foreseeable future. I (and, I'm sure, many others) wish there WAS a way to change that, so that more folks COULD use mass transit. For many, it would mean a much lower cost of commuting, and a lot less stress. As a practical matter, though, if you could survey 200 people leaving a given subdivision, you'd find a huge disparity in destinations/waypoints/etc - and that's where it falls apart in terms of practicality. As a feeder from various waypoints into a centralized destination, it MIGHT work - but the costs of putting it into effect would be astronomical, I'm afraid. Between operational costs, rights-of-way and other factors, I just don't think you can really "blend" mass transit into the existing travel ways...

About the only way I could see it having a chance would be with a master-planned industrial/manufacturing complex employing many thousands, surrounded by residential areas with dedicated light rail feeding into the complex from the surrounding residential areas. The land exists - the key is finding the businesses willing to locate there, and the funding for the transportation system.

[ashbeeigh]

Do some googling regarding Project connect in Austin. We have one light rail system that starts in cedar park and ends in downtown. It’s alright and I use it for major events. The current cost for a light rail that goes through for torn to the airport and through downtown is a disaster and they’re cutting it short and not even making it to the airport. IF and I mean IF SA goes down this road they’ll need to do some major planning and research.

[hindsight2020]

it's a catch-22 though, because legislation aimed at funding car-centric sprawl will always put a stick through the spokes of any LRT initiative. It's a mutually exclusive outlook, for Sunbelt legislatures. For the record, the removal and ripping out of LRT and streetcars from pre-WWII America (to say nothing of the growth patterns of the Sunbelt, which largely occurred AFTER WWII) was a concerted lobbying effort by auto manufacturers, not a result of independent-variable consumer preferences as was implied earlier in the thread.

All that said, absolutely it requires some nodal density when it comes to pick-up/drop-offs. That's a planning discussion, not a political one. But this one is a political question at the core. The problem is not so much that people in the suburbs have "differing destinations", no. The problem with the suburbs is their classist aversion to having nodal connection with disinvested communities closer to the CBD. I saw this play out during my tenure in Atlanta, which even had the benefit of an already established heavy-rail infrastructure (which SAT will never even dare afford), which I made pretty good use of as a college student. The vitriol against MARTA (you should hear what their version of the MARTA acronym stands for) from the OTP usual suspects was eye-opening, and I was just a young transplant without much knowledge of American classism at the time (I was born and raised OCONUS, GA was my first CONUS living spot post-HS graduation). I quickly learned what connotations and stigma public mass transit carry in the American psyche, which play no small part in this gridlock, whether the usual suspects want to admit it or not.

Texans are not the only ones who speak in code though, in fairness to this place. Suburbanites writ large need to be reminded of how our lives are subsidized; what our welfare looks like. I'd say start with congestion pricing to fund further sprawl, and watch the pearl-clutching ensue. I've always found the irony of suburbanites gum-flapping about fiscal sustainability and economic ROI of light rail, a fascinating display of cognitive dissonance.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

The problem is not so much that people in the suburbs have "differing destinations", no. The problem with the suburbs is their classist aversion to having nodal connection with disinvested communities closer to the CBD. .

Good point, I am not a fan of classism (which I believe is more prevalent than racism) and it does exist in present day America. Here in San Diego it took 10 years to get the Mid-Coast Trolley (light rail) going from approval to final construction, this extended the existing Trolley system which already went to other parts of town an additional 11 miles BUT this time to the more affluent side of town, La Jolla.

The opposition by the residents really slowed progress.... but the thing is that it connected the CBD and lower income areas with a major public university, three important hospitals (one of which is the VA in La Jolla) and one of the largest shopping centers in town. The system forged ahead despite opposition.

Is crime up in the area... yes especially theft. But it's really not entirely the new light rails fault, it has more to do with soft on crime measures the city has taken. Is it bringing in homeless from the city center.... you betcha.


As I mentioned above, a light rail from SAN Airport to downtown would either need to go along US 281 OR up Broadway and the folks in Alamo Heights will definitely pull out their NIMBY cards. Since there is nothing really of importance between downtown and the airport (except maybe the zoo), there isn't much leverage VIA would have.

A UTSA downtown to UTSA main campus would be easier to get approved especially with the Medical Center falling right in the middle of the two.

[malcorub16]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

it's a catch-22 though, because legislation aimed at funding car-centric sprawl will always put a stick through the spokes of any LRT initiative. It's a mutually exclusive outlook, for Sunbelt legislatures. For the record, the removal and ripping out of LRT and streetcars from pre-WWII America (to say nothing of the growth patterns of the Sunbelt, which largely occurred AFTER WWII) was a concerted lobbying effort by auto manufacturers, not a result of independent-variable consumer preferences as was implied earlier in the thread.
.

The result, terrible rail and mass transit in most American cities BUT an interstate highway system second to no-one in the world.

[Remington Steel]

Y’all know good and damn well SA won’t ever get something as “sophisticated” as a light rail system…..lol. We even got the Tesla guy ghosting us with the tunnel thing now

[rynetwo]

^^^ Light rail is not sophistication. At this point it is too late and we need to wait for more innovative options.

Also, if you were the Tesla guy would you want to work our city leaders? I sure as the hell would not.

[Remington Steel]

Originally Posted by rynetwo

^^^ Light rail is not sophistication. At this point it is too late and we need to wait for more innovative options.

Also, if you were the Tesla guy would you want to work our city leaders? I sure as the hell would not.

It’s more of a case where “innovation” and forward thinking is a foreign term for them.