I would like your opinion on the TAKS Test. (Abilene: school district, pros and cons)

[cwh]

Originally Posted by winterscorpion

Since its your sisters children you are referencing, perhaps you are speaking before having all the facts. Nonetheless, my daughter is far from being "coddled" as you would say. The fact that you dont have any children or have had any children in the public school system disqualifies your opinion as you have not witnessed the undue stress these kids go through. I will be more than glad to listen to your point of view when you have had your child enrolled in the public school system. Till that time comes, all I can do at this point is welcome your input but discount it because you have no grasp as a parent on what these kids are going through. If Im making the right presumption, you are basing your opinion on someone elses children. Relative or not, unless you live with these children 24/7, its hard to accept what you are saying. Your points seem somewhat valid, and I respect them, however the whole reason for this post was for those who have children dealing with the same issues I have been dealing with for the last four years.

Yes I dont have kids in the public schools, but I know of people with kids in schools and quite a few teachers. Our public schools are undeserving our children, that is not even in question.

I will venture to say that you are fairly new at being a parent, and as such you will see through your childrens eyes many things that bother you. In this particular case, this is one such incident. The TAKS is not geared fairly and does not evaluate the childs academic abilities as a whole. It evaluates a limited agenda set forth by the State and limits the child to learning the test and all the associated strategies with it. The childs overall GPA has no bearing in the end. Herein lies the problem. Like I said, I have witnessed this with both kids and soon to be a third when he gets to that point. With all the respect I can muster, come and talk to me five years from now....oh wait the TAKS tests days are numbered, so I guess you wont go through it will you? Its easy to look from the outside and be a critic....its human nature. Its a very different thing entirely when its your own children.

The reason why GPA has no bearing on the taks test, is so that it carries some weight. Before when the tests had no weight, many kids would just bubble in answers randomly. This is sad but true. These tests must carry some weight so kids will at least try to take them. There is no perfect way to evaluate what kids know, but tests are tests and must be taken. If your kid makes good grades, she should have no problem passing the taks test. If you kid makes good grade and fails the taks test, you school has failed your daughter. Average students should have no problem doing well on it.

Im not sure if your implying that my child's academic abilities are less than where they need to be or if the test is much harder than it should be. Either way, if that was the implied jist of your post, it was in no way appreciated. If it wasn't, then I wish you would be a little clearer as I have two highly intelligent, gifted, daughters whom I love more than life itself. As a parent, (which you will someday understand...I hope) you want whats best for your kids. You want them to do well and to excel. There is no undue pressure at home on either one. I could care less what they choose to do in life as long as its productive and honest and they graduate High School. What happens after that is totally up to them. When I see either struggling, I do my best to help them. This goes along with that belief.

No i am stating if your daughter is doing well, but having a hard time with the taks, the school has failed you and your daughter. Average students should have little problem passing this test. If you daughter is in fact above average, she should easily ace this test.

So to bottom line it once again, The TAKS TEST needs to go. Short sweet and to the point.

And be replaced with what? We still need to continue to evaluate our schools, teachers and students.

[houstoner]

I haven't read all the other replies, but I abhor the TAKS test. It's a joke. It's a test of very basic skills. If your daughter is an A and B student, she will have absolutely NO problem passing it, unless she is one of those students who clam up during test time. Schools put WAY, WAY too much emphasis on it and spend way too much time actively teaching to it. If they are so concerned that students learn test-taking strategies, they should offer after school classes on it for the students who could really benefit from it instead of wasting valuable class time.

[houstoner]

Originally Posted by slonga

Agreed - some valid points. I really do believe that yes, many teachers have a very difficult time with many of the challenges that they face in the classroom - so my comments do not apply to ALL teachers.

However what I have a problem with is the extremly negative visceral reaction by some teachers and their fellow travellers (i.e. the teachers Union) to any form of testing that would expose the very low standards.

What I also have even great difficulty with is the fact that poor teachers cannot be FIRED. This is the heart of my criticism and I think that the ability to cull poor performers would greatly improve teaching standards and overall morale. This will only happen over the dead body of the teachers union.

Here is why I support the TAKS test

(1) Every other country in the world uses extensive and rigorous testing, and they cannot all be wrong!

(2) The argument against the TAKS test is nearly always teacher centered. i.e. it puts a lot of extra stress on teachers - however it GREATLY benefits young people that they have rudimentary english and math skills.

(3) I have not heard many contributers here arguing for more rigorous and extensive testing. This should be the goal to bring us up to International Standards.

(4) We need well educated kids to pay for our Social Security.

The TAKS test is in no way rigorous. I'm not against all standardized testing. Clearly there is some use in assessing students' performance levels. What I am against is the TAKS test itself -- its content (if it actually tested creative and critical thinking skills rather than rote memorization and regurgitation, that'd be great), -- the fact that it is "taught" in schools, the weight it's given (no pass, no play), and the frequency with which it is taken. I don't know why students need to be tested every year starting in third grade. Why not have six-weeks exams and finals? That's what we've done for decades before this testing frenzy started.

[sarahdsmom]

Let me add not only do I hate the TAKS...I hate the TPRI testing leading up to these tests. They are given to K-2, at our school they are given one-on-one in the hall. My DD is not aware how important these "screenings" as they call them are, she reads really well at home but when doing these tests she doesn't do as well. I think she's nervous, she takes her time & goes slow (which btw they don't want) and if there is a problem in one area like decoding a word...well the teaching doesn't focus on that. They just continue on with what and how they teach instead of helping the student with their individual issue. She's reading more words and better than I did at her age some 40 something years ago. My feeling on it is everyone learns at their own pace. Does it really matter if my child is at 60 words per minute with 100% accuracy at the age of 7? I think they are putting too much on these kids too early. Something is wrong when you have as many kids left back in kinder and first as NEISD has had. Don't get me wrong we have great schools, I moved here from San Diego CA because the public schools in our area were horrible. The problem lies in overcrowding and state testing that needs an overhaul.

[slonga]

Originally Posted by houstoner

The TAKS test is in no way rigorous. I'm not against all standardized testing. Clearly there is some use in assessing students' performance levels. What I am aganst is the TAKS test itself -- its content (if it actually tested creative and critical thinking skills rather than rote memorization and regurgitation, that'd be great), .

Yes my point is that the TAKS test is a very easy test, however any of the testing and examinations approches that I have seen in other countries are far MORE rigouous and require far more of the 'memorization and regurgitation' that you so despise.

I am absolutely fed up with this old hoary chestnut about 'creative and critical thinking skills'. I am perfectly happy to encourage 'creative and critical thinking skills' AFTER the students have mastered the basics.
I have tought math at University and I am despondent with the great 'creative and critical thinking skills' of the students who join yet that cannot solve a simple equation that they should have learned when they were in eight grade.

Invariably these students fail.

In a research laboratory that I worked in, if any job candidate had done the --- warning for teachers dirty word here -- Saxon Math program, they were almost invariably hired since we knew that they could master most of the work. This program is anathma to most teachers since it requires repetition, mastery and memorization.

Okay lets get rid of the TAKS test and replace it with something far more rigorous and extensive. In fact lets take the curricula and examinations from some countries that we trade with. How about the UK's A level system or the French Bac.

Trust me the Teaches Union and their fellow accountability haters (i.e. LULAC) will be rioting on the streets.

[slonga]

Originally Posted by Montirob

Why? My class (honors English) had already completed all of the "standard" curriculum. What should be taught in English? Diagramming sentences? Done. Learning vocabulary we would only see on the SAT test (with a little Latin thrown in)? Done.

So what does talking about advertisements have to do with English? Well, we deconstructed them. We examined how they used language to manipulate opinions. We noted things that were implied but not said so as to be legal. So how does this help us in the "real world"? Well, we were able to take the lessons and apply it to examining propaganda. We were able to write more persuasive essays. I guess you could say we learned how to examine things - a highly useful skill in my opinion.

Oh, and by the way, our school was always one of the top producers of National Merit Scholars.

A fine post for my intemperate remarks. I tip my hat to you!

[winterscorpion]

Originally Posted by slonga

Yes my point is that the TAKS test is a very easy test, however any of the testing and examinations approches that I have seen in other countries are far MORE rigouous and require far more of the 'memorization and regurgitation' that you so despise.

I am absolutely fed up with this old hoary chestnut about 'creative and critical thinking skills'. I am perfectly happy to encourage 'creative and critical thinking skills' AFTER the students have mastered the basics.
I have tought math at University and I am despondent with the great 'creative and critical thinking skills' of the students who join yet that cannot solve a simple equation that they should have learned when they were in eight grade.

Invariably these students fail.


In a research laboratory that I worked in, if any job candidate had done the --- warning for teachers dirty word here -- Saxon Math program, they were almost invariably hired since we knew that they could master most of the work. This program is anathma to most teachers since it requires repetition, mastery and memorization.

Okay lets get rid of the TAKS test and replace it with something far more rigorous and extensive. In fact lets take the curricula and examinations from some countries that we trade with. How about the UK's A level system or the French Bac.

Trust me the Teaches Union and their fellow accountability haters (i.e. LULAC) will be rioting on the streets.

You mentioned research laboratory. You must be one of those folks that know whats best for all children and school systems right? Number crunching, analyzing, statistic gathering....I'm sure you did quite well at the job. The one element you failed to address is that each child developes at his or her own pace.....no numbers, statistics, or other BS is going to change that. Rather than consult the ones who would see the actual application of this test and the fallout associated with it, the state used consulting firms....the lowest bidder I'm sure, and came up with a test that supposedly shows adequate progession for that childs age bracket.

Back to my original point. How can a state exam properly show where the child is academically in one day what a teacher shows throughout a years worth of documentation? The criteria is alledgedly the same, yet an honors student can still fail. I see a problem with that, really. And just for the record, I could understand if it was one teacher teaching all subjects throughout the day, but this is several different teachers representing several different academic disciplines.

I think you've lost sight of the childs developement in an attempt to push your obvious dislike for teachers and their Unions. This leads me to believe that you have had some experience (quite possibly negative) with them. I am also led to believe that you are using this forum as a way to promote your belief that the American School system is failing overall.

Make no mistake about it, I have a great dislike for School Boards, and standardized tests. On the flipside, I think that with a few tweeks we will continue to be one of the worlds foremost academic pools.

If I follow you right, and I think I do, you would have the United States implement a series of tests as early as possible so as to ensure that the US would rank 1st in the world for education. So in other words, each would be taught to learn, read, and function a certain way, maintaining a higher IQ than that of our neighboring countries right? I mean after all the United States is greatly lacking....you yourself said we should start learing Mandarin. I believe that was tried once many years ago. The only difference between thier mindset and yours was German would have been thier language of choice. Look how that ended up.

You are obviously educated....that I'm sure of. Its your narrow mind and train of thought that bother me. Your right and everyone else is wrong....if this was the case, we would be voting for you instead of listening to you.

Food for thought
You STILL havent changed my view on the TAKS test.
Peace
Winter

[quest51210]

winterscorpion, still no message from you in my inbox. we recently had to ambush dr. duron to meet with us and have the media involved now. do not think it will roll into an actual segment, but we can all hope. also have quite a few city council members fed up with the TAKS testing. we are now working with our state reps, but the issue is that some of them are not educated enough themselves to speak on the subject. there is a good friend of mine at the education trust named dr. paul ruiz. he is a wealth of information and worth the wait to have a sit down with him.

he founded the P-16 program and i think you would be interested in his point of view.
The Education Trust - Closing the Achievement Gap

[Bo]

Interesting article on the front page of today's Express-News about dropouts. It mentions how the pressure to keep TAKS averages and attendance up actually leads teachers and administrators to abandon students who drop out. Those students poor scores and attendance lower those important averages upon which teachers are judged, so the teachers appear to be performing better without them.

Dropping in on dropouts to push school (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Dropping_in_on_dropouts_to_push_education.html - broken link)

[quest51210]

a good friend of mine at a local elementary teaches his students literature like henry james, shakespeare, and vonnegut. all of his students pass the taks with no issues. it is a SAISD school too.