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Old 04-26-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
24 posts, read 40,425 times
Reputation: 17

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I am looking for thoughts on the Pros and Cons of bringing back a system of Corporal Punishment or other disciplinary measures that would actually be carried out and EFFECTIVE in San Antonio and surrounding area school districts (Boerne and other surrounding towns).

Kids are outta control. What are viable options? What we are able to do now (pretty much nothing and the kids know it) is NOT working. Teachers, student aides, classroom volunteers and (here's the kicker) your own children are victims to the unruly conduct (that is putting it mildly) of "children" whose parents WILL NOT address the behavior that is socially unacceptable. This is not limited to high school or even middle school. Ideas by age group would be welcome as well.

There are 6th graders having sex on school grounds, 4th graders cussing out teachers, middle and high school kids physically threatening teachers, abusive behaviors toward other students that are not able to be addressed EFFECTIVELY.

Realistic ideas are welcome. This includes some methods of Corporal Punishment in my opinion. I plan to draft something for submission if I can gather enough info. Feed back from those in the education field (teachers and administrators is very welcome) but also Parents and even students (if you can be mature and respectful about your suggestions...this really applies to us ALL).

This may have been done before but needs to happen again and again until something different is tried!
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:51 AM
 
16,027 posts, read 22,076,867 times
Reputation: 14159
Growing up in another country, I can tell you that
Physical punishment is always the easy way out.

How about...
- Pay teachers more to be able to require them to have a better education on how to deal with kids
- Provide better counseling in schools
- Increase funding for extracurricular activities
- Etc.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
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Location: Ohio
17,102 posts, read 35,557,418 times
Reputation: 14372
Corporal punishment has fallen so far out of favor, for research-backed reasons, there's a very real chance it'll either be banned statewide or nationally in the foreseeable future. I point this out because if either ban happens, it will trump the district's choice, if you happen to find a district that supports it.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:48 AM
 
905 posts, read 2,771,045 times
Reputation: 610
secgal1, I understand where you are coming from, but I doubt that corporal punishment will ever return in schools. I recall the days that the boys were afraid of the 'spat' board that the coaches and principal had. Act up and get a few spats. Seemed to work then. Not PC now....

Quote:
Dopo:
How about...
- Pay teachers more to be able to require them to have a better education on how to deal with kids
- Provide better counseling in schools
- Increase funding for extracurricular activities
- Etc.
Dopo, I don't think it's necessarily the teacher that is to blame. Paying them more won't mean they'll go get a better education, either. Maybe they need more teacher workshops on "how to effectively police a classroom full of brats without upsetting the PC crowd or getting Little Johnny's mommie's panties in a wad"..... If it were up to me, the 2nd time I had to reprimand a kid in class would be the time that kid went to the office for the administration to deal with. I don't think that's what happens in school today. Now the teacher has to police unruly kids (as secgal1 mentioned) who don't care because they won't get in trouble at school, nor will they get in trouble at home. The problem started at home with the parents that don't care or don't take the time to properly raise their kids. Or perhaps these are kids of parents that run up to school and complain that the bad ol' teacher is being mean to my sweet little Sarah or dear little Johnny. *BARF*

Better counseling is a good idea, but maybe make it targeted counseling. Have special counselors for problem kids. Send them to ISS in the cafeteria with a teacher with a drill sargent personality....like Sgt. Carter from "Gomer Pyle" for those of you that can remember him...

I don't know if funding for extracurricular activities would do any good. What kind of activities are you thinking about? Maybe like.....

"50 laps around the track"
For those who can't sit still in class or insist on texting friends...

"Afterschool Study Hour"
for those who can't seem to do their homework or projects

"Push-ups or Shut up"
for those that don't know the meaning of 'be quiet'

Public or private, my kids have been to both and the problems are the same. Any teachers out there that have any ideas?
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Pipe Creek, TX
2,793 posts, read 5,571,045 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by catriona View Post
I recall the days that the boys were afraid of the 'spat' board that the coaches and principal had. Act up and get a few spats. Seemed to work then. Not PC now....
Oh, you mean the board with the holes cut out in it? Yeah.... it didn't work back then... at least on the rowdier of students.

I'm against corporal punishment. I think it's an option that the parent should choose (or not choose). That's a tough one, knowing that many parents won't do anything. But I guess that's their option, too.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA
5,142 posts, read 12,243,277 times
Reputation: 2512
Quote:
Originally Posted by catriona View Post
...

"50 laps around the track"
For those who can't sit still in class or insist on texting friends...

"Push-ups or Shut up"
for those that don't know the meaning of 'be quiet'
This could help in our obesity issue mentioned in a past thread without the use of any funds. It's free!
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
24 posts, read 40,425 times
Reputation: 17
Well I don't see forcing Little Johnny or Sarah to run around the track or doing push ups being an option in real life...they will simply refuse to do them or mommy/daddy will have a cow that you are abusng their poor darling somehow. Remember these are not kids that respect authority. That is the problem. They WILL NOT do what the teacher says, don't care what the administrators say (if they say anything at all before sending them back to class), and know that there is really no recourse for the teachers or even administrators.

I could buy into the seminars for teachers on classroom managment. However nowadays that would likely mean teaching the teachers to "listen to the poor misguided children about what is the root of their current emotional issue causing them to act out in socially unacceptable ways". Oh and the teacher has to do this somehow while teaching and watching the other 25+ kids in the class so they can continue to reach the educational goals we expect. Granted some teachers could be better managers of their classrooms no doubt, but this is NOT the problem. It is lack of discipline in the children, they are not required by their parents or the district to stop this behavior.

Just think if you told your child to do or to stop doing something. They refuse. You tell them again. Again they refuse or better yet, perhaps they yell at you or cuss at you. What will you do? What recourse do you have that would cause the child to change their behavior and accept your will? Now put a teacher in your place. What will you allow a teacher to do in those circumstances? Probably much less. Now imagine the kid KNOWS the teacher can do absolutely NOTHING to make them obey. Will they? They will have to chose to do so. There is nothing the teacher can do to them or take away from them that they will care about so what is the disciplinary tool they can use?

If you send the kid to the office nothing happens. I think that is what people just don't believe. Somehow we think these kids CARE that they are being sent out of the class. They don't! Its a game to them and they laugh the whole way there and back. Literally laugh. Please don't think I am joking.



Dopo - money is not the issue. Paying them more doesn't make them better educated either. i agree with Catriona on that one.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
24 posts, read 40,425 times
Reputation: 17
Oh and study hour after school...i heard a 6th grader say "I am not going to that. What are they gonna do? They can't make me."
Now what do you do?
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
24 posts, read 40,425 times
Reputation: 17
I also think that the easy way out is to continue the course we are on...do nothing. Going to physical punishment as an option, not the first resort, is not easy.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA
5,142 posts, read 12,243,277 times
Reputation: 2512
How about getting in touch with local alternative schools and the Bexar County JVD (http://www.co.bexar.tx.us/bcjpd/BCI_JVD.html? - broken link)
Maybe there is someone who can offer you tips or point you in the right direction.
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