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Sorry in advance for the long post... we've decided to move from San Diego to the Temecula/Murrieta area, most likely in March or April of 2012. We like what we've seen so far, and frankly, we'd like to be able to afford a house sometime before we die (which won't happen in SD - at least, not in a neighborhood we'd be willing to live in). Problem is, we're having difficulty sorting through the hundreds of available homes and dozens of seemingly-equivalent schools, not to mention the ongoing Temecula vs. Murrieta vs. "Other" debate that seems to run through these City-Data threads. So, I have many questions, and knowing that many of you have detailed local knowledge, I'm hoping you can assist.
Here are the basics of our situation:
1.) My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and we have two small children who are almost 5 yrs and 1 yr old, respectively. So, the paramount concern for us is to find a neighborhood that is family friendly - e.g., low crime, good schools, no significant noise other than kids playing, etc.
2.) I prefer to avoid high taxes. This Mello-Roos thing that I discovered upon moving to CA a couple of years ago is nothing short of outrageous. And, I detest HOAs, having had many bad experiences with them in my former home state of AZ. In an ideal world, I'd like to find a good community that has neither of these things - but I'm also a realist, so I recognize that I might have to deal with one or both if it turns out that there are a lack of non-MR, non-HOA options.
3.) I mostly work at home, so commuting is not much of an issue - but I'd still like to be close to shopping and entertainment. We don't mind driving, but would hate to settle in an area where every little errand is an inconvenience.
4.) I think we'll go the public school route, but I can't make heads or tails of my choices in the area. Are Temecula schools really that much better than Murrieta schools (as I often read in these forums)? If so, I understand there are parts of Winchester and Murrieta that feed into the Temecula school district - would those be good places to live, to maybe save on housing costs while getting the better schools?
These are the questions that are consuming us as we look at houses. On some level, everything looks the same, but clearly there will be differences from area to area, and we're trying to figure out those differences and focus on one or more specific neighborhoods before we start looking too closely at individual houses.
With these things in mind, are there areas you would recommend? Knowing our circumstances and preferences, does either Temecula or Murrieta stand out as an obvious choice? For that matter, what exactly are Winchester and French Valley? Are those real cities, with normal city services? Or would I find those areas to be not worth the effort (the houses appear to be cheaper, but maybe for a reason?)? And - though this question opens up an entirely new dialogue - what's the deal with this Temecula charter school that everyone speaks so highly of? Is that part of the public school system, and would that be a reason to live in Temecula? Or could we send our kids there if we lived in Murrieta?
Any advice on neighborhoods, schools, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance for your help, and for reading this lengthy post. Hopefully we'll get to meet some of you as neighbors eventually.
Sorry in advance for the long post... we've decided to move from San Diego to the Temecula/Murrieta area, most likely in March or April of 2012. We like what we've seen so far, and frankly, we'd like to be able to afford a house sometime before we die (which won't happen in SD - at least, not in a neighborhood we'd be willing to live in). Problem is, we're having difficulty sorting through the hundreds of available homes and dozens of seemingly-equivalent schools, not to mention the ongoing Temecula vs. Murrieta vs. "Other" debate that seems to run through these City-Data threads. So, I have many questions, and knowing that many of you have detailed local knowledge, I'm hoping you can assist.
Here are the basics of our situation:
1.) My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and we have two small children who are almost 5 yrs and 1 yr old, respectively. So, the paramount concern for us is to find a neighborhood that is family friendly - e.g., low crime, good schools, no significant noise other than kids playing, etc.
2.) I prefer to avoid high taxes. This Mello-Roos thing that I discovered upon moving to CA a couple of years ago is nothing short of outrageous. And, I detest HOAs, having had many bad experiences with them in my former home state of AZ. In an ideal world, I'd like to find a good community that has neither of these things - but I'm also a realist, so I recognize that I might have to deal with one or both if it turns out that there are a lack of non-MR, non-HOA options.
3.) I mostly work at home, so commuting is not much of an issue - but I'd still like to be close to shopping and entertainment. We don't mind driving, but would hate to settle in an area where every little errand is an inconvenience.
4.) I think we'll go the public school route, but I can't make heads or tails of my choices in the area. Are Temecula schools really that much better than Murrieta schools (as I often read in these forums)? If so, I understand there are parts of Winchester and Murrieta that feed into the Temecula school district - would those be good places to live, to maybe save on housing costs while getting the better schools?
These are the questions that are consuming us as we look at houses. On some level, everything looks the same, but clearly there will be differences from area to area, and we're trying to figure out those differences and focus on one or more specific neighborhoods before we start looking too closely at individual houses.
With these things in mind, are there areas you would recommend? Knowing our circumstances and preferences, does either Temecula or Murrieta stand out as an obvious choice? For that matter, what exactly are Winchester and French Valley? Are those real cities, with normal city services? Or would I find those areas to be not worth the effort (the houses appear to be cheaper, but maybe for a reason?)? And - though this question opens up an entirely new dialogue - what's the deal with this Temecula charter school that everyone speaks so highly of? Is that part of the public school system, and would that be a reason to live in Temecula? Or could we send our kids there if we lived in Murrieta?
Any advice on neighborhoods, schools, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance for your help, and for reading this lengthy post. Hopefully we'll get to meet some of you as neighbors eventually.
- Jordan
I live in Southern Temecula in Redhawk, when we first were looking 2 years ago I also hated HOA's and swore I wouldn't live in a place that had one. Well we bought in Redhawk where we have a 33.60 a month HOA. Redhawk IMO is beautifully maintained for the 33.60. The HOA also helps to keep your neighbors yards looking nice and so they don't have cars all over the place etc. I like to take good care of my yard and having the HOA makes it so your neighbors take halfway good care of their lawns as well. My neighbors front yard looks good, but the back yard is terrible. I can't imagine what the front would look like if they didn't have to keep it looking decent due to the HOA. We also don't have a Mello roos.
We are just past the casino and near the high school. Traffic near the casino is not bad at all and being the first exit when coming from SD is a plus. The mall and everything is 2 exits north but there are plenty of grocery stores within a 5 minute drive from redhawk/southern temecula. If you want the mall you will need to head north. I prefer to stay away from the mall area (Winchester Road) unless we have to. This past weekend we headed to a few stores up there. it just seems to always be busy and there are more signals you have to wait for. There are also some restaurants and bars in southern Temecula but more of them in northern Temecula near the mall. We tend to go to the ones close to home. The casino has a comedy club that is fun and a bunch of restaurants and Kelseys sports bar.
The schools in Temecula and Murrieta are the same. i read an article about the highschool exit exam a few weeks ago and Murrieta was slightly higher than Temecula. They are very similar and I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Both Cities are very close to one another and driving around them you wouldn't know where the border was unless its pointed out to you. Crime is the same in both cities as far as I know.
Living in southern temecula you get a nice afternoon breeze that cools it down everyday. I have friends who live in Ranch Penasquitos and they got their SDGE bill last month and it was 450, mine for gas and electric was 65. the afternoon breeze makes it so you can open the windows and cool it right off.
I really don't know much about Murrieta. French Valley is Northeast of Temecula and it cost a little bit less.
Good luck in your search, There are many nice areas of Temecula, not just redhawk. The areas in Northern Temecula are nice but also not as new as southern.
Thanks danalysd! I appreciate the detailed response, and will take a closer look at Redhawk and the surrounding neighborhoods. $34/mo for an HOA doesn't sound oppressive; it's more the HOA structure that concerns me. I'm happy to have someone tell my neighbor to clean up his lawn, but I'm not a big fan of HOAs when they start telling me what to do (and it's not like we're slobs - we've just lived with some overbearing HOAs). Has your HOA issued any special assessments, or had any major controversies (e.g., resident lawsuits) that are worth noting? Or is its relationship with residents mostly routine and administrative?
It's funny that you mention Rancho Penasquitos... that's where we live now (actually, a bit west of RP, in the newer area of Torrey Highlands). Our SDG&E bills have run over $250/mo this summer to cool a 3-level townhouse of about 1800 sq. ft. - so, anything that helps us hold down that monthly expense will be welcomed. I hadn't really thought much about potential climate differences between, say, north Murrieta and south Temecula, since I tend to view both cities as one contiguous metro area. But if there's a noticeable difference, that's definitely something that will be a big factor in our decision. After nearly 13 years in Phoenix, and after treating ourselves to a couple of years in SD, we would definitely like to settle in an area that strikes a reasonable balance with the weather conditions.
to meet your req's on no MR and HOA...northeast side of town behind Meadowview in between La Serena and Nicolas. Has no MR or HOA.
Starlight ridge between Rancho Cal, Ynez, Rancho Vista and Margartia (big rectangular area) has no MR and very low HOA (it's to maintain landscaping basically).
There's an older neighborhood like these 1st two (can't recall name) between the Ranch Cal, Rancho Vista, Margarita and Meadows as well.
If you go new (built after the city incorporated) and get closer to the magic year of 2000, every neighborhood will have MR's and HOA.
Out in wine country or De Luz, the HOA(s) are responsible for the roads so they can be high.
Murrieta??? no clue. similar to temecula in that there are a few neighborhoods that meet the 1st criteria.
As for kid friendly....hang out around the neighborhood(s) you like around the time parents are dropping off/picking up kids. otherwise its a crapshoot. my old neighborhood had kids...all were older than mine. new neighborhood, kids are right around my kids age.
We moved to Murrieta from the OC (we lived in Aliso Viejo) about a year and a half ago. I chuckled when I read your comment about ever affording a house in SD, I know exactly what you mean.
I would recommend Murrieta over Temecula, even though Temecula is nice too. First of all, these two cities are basically merged geographically and I think one day are to become a metropolitan area. They both look a lot like the OC and I think in not too distant a future they will be the new OC. Having said that, I must recommend Murrieta over Temecula. It is less crowded in general, and it is very safe. Murrieta is one of the safest cities in the nation, according to FBI and other organizations. I can attest that's true.
I would recommend the Copper Canyon area in West Murrieta. It is a beautiful neighborhood with excellent schools (Copper Canyon Elementary is "10" California school - the highest ranking), as well as the distinguished Murrieta Valley High School down the street on Washington Avenue. Copper Canyon area is between Washington Ave and Clinton Keith, around Calle Del Oso Oro. On two sides it is surrounded by Santa Rosa mountains with incredible mountain views (need to see to believe). Down the street is the famous gated-community Bear Creek and its nationally acclaimed golf course. Down the Clinton Keith is the La Cresta, where celebrities have homes - it is worth a drive just to see the amazing estates and truly million dollar views.
There is no HOA in Copper Canyon! Taxes are decent, about 1.5%. Homes are newer, most built after 2000 by Pacific Standard, high quality. Back yards are generally large. Parks are awesome!! Check out Bear Creek Park, there are miles of amazing trails that weave between houses and parks of nicely landscaped areas for children (and pets if you have them), and the view from the end of Calle Cipres (with nature trails). People are very nice, very family friendly place.
Houses in Copper Canyon currently (Sep 2011) go for 250-370K, depending on the views, amenities, size etc, usually between 2200 and 3300 square feet. Typically for about 110-130 dollars per square foot. For your situation, where you work from home (as do I!), this is an ideal place. It is truly a good neighborhood. We've spent about 5 months (!!) looking around (Murrieta, Temecula, Wildomar, Lake Elsinore, Menifee etc), and this is by far the best place. It is more expensive than most of other areas around, but worth it in more ways than one.
Another thing to consider is that this part of Murrieta/Temecula (some call it Murricula because they are so intertwined) is the weather. Copper Canyon is a bit up (about 1300 feet of altitude) and it gets a good breeze almost every day. The breeze comes from the south (from SD) and it's a cooler air, so Copper Canyon has a bit of a microclimate of its own. I noticed that we are definitely cooler here than elsewhere, which is very nice. Probably because Santa Rosa mountains are so close. We often get the mountain fog here too (at night) which is really cool! Since humidity is generally lower here, I must say that compared to where we lived in the OC (maybe 6 miles from the ocean), the comfort is comparable. Temperatures are probably (about on average) 5-7 degrees warmer during the day in the summer, but humidity is only about a third. I think people often forget about that. I lived by the beach for about 6 years and can attest to the fact that humidity of 70% makes a huge difference, compared to around 15-20% here. During the night, it's cooler here then in the OC, likely the influence of the high-desert areas to the east. We definitely sleep better here at night then in the OC. In a year and a half we only had AC running at night once. The rest of the year, the weather is beautiful all around (about 75F maybe), with a few days in the winter a bit "wintry" which I personally like (where daily high is only about 55F).
Our electricity bills in the summer are between $100-$180, in the winter about $60. Gas is about $15-$20 in the summer, and about $80 in the winter. Water bill is usually about $90.
If you like walking, Copper Canyon has nice sidewalks with amazing views all around. If you like playing outdoors, there is a great number of parks dispersed throughout the area, nice open green areas.
The air quality here is great maybe because we're surrounded by Santa Rosa Mountains, which is a protected area with its own nature park. Check out Santa Rosa Plateau (5 minutes up Clinton Keith), it's a nature preserve with miles of paths and historic adobe houses, amazing nature park.
Some advice: quite a few houses here come with two ACs (one for upstairs one for downstairs), so if you can find that it helps. Great design! We save a lot because often we're all downstairs (eating, watching tv) and no need to cool upstairs, or the other way around. As I mentioned, houses here are newer and better insulated, it truly helps (compared to the OC where most houses were built in the '80 and '90 and it shows - insulation is not that great). Even in the hottest summer days, we usually don't turn on AC until 2:30pm or so.
As far as amenities, there is pretty much everything (many grocery chains such as Staters/Ralphs/Albertsons, but also some nice specialy groceries such as Baron's just down the street), Trader Joes in Temecula. Anything else is here too (pharmacies, shopping centers, restaurants, car dealerships, cinemas, home improvement stores (Lowes and Home Depot just down Madison), child care centers, banks etc etc).
As for the cable/internet, this is Verizon FIOS area. FIOS rocks! We pay about $110 a month for blazing fast Internet (I measured about 7Mb per second) and 3 TV/cable boxes (one HDTV). I watch Netflix HD streaming with amazing quality, just like it's from DVD.
Also, I think that the City of Murrieta has a good team, starting with Mayor Randon Lane, and it's very pro business but also very environmentally friendly. We liked that about the city, just in general terms to consider when choosing the location. I think Murrieta has a good future, even with current economic downturn. Murrieta has also a high per capita income, mostly because a good deal of white collar workers have found a home here. Murrieta has a slightly larger population than Temecula, around 105,000 I think.
Hope this helps. We spent a great deal of time researching everything (and especially pavement pounding) before we bought here, and I must say it didn't disappoint. I'd say Murrieta (and Copper Canyon in particular) is your best bet.
Last edited by Murricula!; 09-21-2011 at 12:14 AM..
Thanks davehalo and Murricula! This is very useful info, and I'll investigate the areas you've both mentioned. The more I read, the more it seems like we've made the right choice to move to this general area; now we just have to dig deeper into the neighborhoods and pick the best one.
One followup question: do you (or does anyone else) know of a resource where you can look up Mello-Roos assessments and HOA dues by subdivision? I would think that the county assessor's website might have something about Mello-Roos on a per-address basis, but I'm looking for something more general... maybe a realtor website, or a local news website, or something like that? I'd love to have a resource that I could keep handy while I (perpetually) look through house listings online. Any ideas where I could find all of this info in one place? Is that even available? HOA dues, in particular, never seem to be displayed in these online listings, but high HOA fees would be a dealbreaker for me and thus I'd like to know that info up front, if possible.
Again, thanks for your help! I'm glad I posted in this forum.
We moved to Murrieta from the OC (we lived in Aliso Viejo) about a year and a half ago. I chuckled when I read your comment about ever affording a house in SD, I know exactly what you mean.
I would recommend Murrieta over Temecula, even though Temecula is nice too. First of all, these two cities are basically merged geographically and I think one day are to become a metropolitan area. They both look a lot like the OC and I think in not too distant a future they will be the new OC. Having said that, I must recommend Murrieta over Temecula. It is less crowded in general, and it is very safe. Murrieta is one of the safest cities in the nation, according to FBI and other organizations. I can attest that's true.
I would recommend the Copper Canyon area in West Murrieta. It is a beautiful neighborhood with excellent schools (Copper Canyon Elementary is "10" California school - the highest ranking), as well as the distinguished Murrieta Valley High School down the street on Washington Avenue. Copper Canyon area is between Washington Ave and Clinton Keith, around Calle Del Oso Oro. On two sides it is surrounded by Santa Rosa mountains with incredible mountain views (need to see to believe). Down the street is the famous gated-community Bear Creek and its nationally acclaimed golf course. Down the Clinton Keith is the La Cresta, where celebrities have homes - it is worth a drive just to see the amazing estates and truly million dollar views.
There is no HOA in Copper Canyon! Taxes are decent, about 1.5%. Homes are newer, most built after 2000 by Pacific Standard, high quality. Back yards are generally large. Parks are awesome!! Check out Bear Creek Park, there are miles of amazing trails that weave between houses and parks of nicely landscaped areas for children (and pets if you have them), and the view from the end of Calle Cipres (with nature trails). People are very nice, very family friendly place.
Houses in Copper Canyon currently (Sep 2011) go for 250-370K, depending on the views, amenities, size etc, usually between 2200 and 3300 square feet. Typically for about 110-130 dollars per square foot. For your situation, where you work from home (as do I!), this is an ideal place. It is truly a good neighborhood. We've spent about 5 months (!!) looking around (Murrieta, Temecula, Wildomar, Lake Elsinore, Menifee etc), and this is by far the best place. It is more expensive than most of other areas around, but worth it in more ways than one.
Another thing to consider is that this part of Murrieta/Temecula (some call it Murricula because they are so intertwined) is the weather. Copper Canyon is a bit up (about 1300 feet of altitude) and it gets a good breeze almost every day. The breeze comes from the south (from SD) and it's a cooler air, so Copper Canyon has a bit of a microclimate of its own. I noticed that we are definitely cooler here than elsewhere, which is very nice. Probably because Santa Rosa mountains are so close. We often get the mountain fog here too (at night) which is really cool! Since humidity is generally lower here, I must say that compared to where we lived in the OC (maybe 6 miles from the ocean), the comfort is comparable. Temperatures are probably (about on average) 5-7 degrees warmer during the day in the summer, but humidity is only about a third. I think people often forget about that. I lived by the beach for about 6 years and can attest to the fact that humidity of 70% makes a huge difference, compared to around 15-20% here. During the night, it's cooler here then in the OC, likely the influence of the high-desert areas to the east. We definitely sleep better here at night then in the OC. In a year and a half we only had AC running at night once. The rest of the year, the weather is beautiful all around (about 75F maybe), with a few days in the winter a bit "wintry" which I personally like (where daily high is only about 55F).
Our electricity bills in the summer are between $100-$180, in the winter about $60. Gas is about $15-$20 in the summer, and about $80 in the winter. Water bill is usually about $90.
If you like walking, Copper Canyon has nice sidewalks with amazing views all around. If you like playing outdoors, there is a great number of parks dispersed throughout the area, nice open green areas.
The air quality here is great maybe because we're surrounded by Santa Rosa Mountains, which is a protected area with its own nature park. Check out Santa Rosa Plateau (5 minutes up Clinton Keith), it's a nature preserve with miles of paths and historic adobe houses, amazing nature park.
Some advice: quite a few houses here come with two ACs (one for upstairs one for downstairs), so if you can find that it helps. Great design! We save a lot because often we're all downstairs (eating, watching tv) and no need to cool upstairs, or the other way around. As I mentioned, houses here are newer and better insulated, it truly helps (compared to the OC where most houses were built in the '80 and '90 and it shows - insulation is not that great). Even in the hottest summer days, we usually don't turn on AC until 2:30pm or so.
As far as amenities, there is pretty much everything (many grocery chains such as Staters/Ralphs/Albertsons, but also some nice specialy groceries such as Baron's just down the street), Trader Joes in Temecula. Anything else is here too (pharmacies, shopping centers, restaurants, car dealerships, cinemas, home improvement stores (Lowes and Home Depot just down Madison), child care centers, banks etc etc).
As for the cable/internet, this is Verizon FIOS area. FIOS rocks! We pay about $110 a month for blazing fast Internet (I measured about 7Mb per second) and 3 TV/cable boxes (one HDTV). I watch Netflix HD streaming with amazing quality, just like it's from DVD.
Also, I think that the City of Murrieta has a good team, starting with Mayor Randon Lane, and it's very pro business but also very environmentally friendly. We liked that about the city, just in general terms to consider when choosing the location. I think Murrieta has a good future, even with current economic downturn. Murrieta has also a high per capita income, mostly because a good deal of white collar workers have found a home here. Murrieta has a slightly larger population than Temecula, around 105,000 I think.
Hope this helps. We spent a great deal of time researching everything (and especially pavement pounding) before we bought here, and I must say it didn't disappoint. I'd say Murrieta (and Copper Canyon in particular) is your best bet.
Thanks, this is helpful to me and others I'm sure!
HOA information on MLS listings is a hit and miss. If you use RedFin (I used it, and it worked the best), they often display HOA info. But sometimes not.
If you get your MLS listings from an agent, be sure to tell him/her 10 times you don't want HOA! It's very important because we found they often give you houses with HOA for consideration (contrary to your clear specification).
I can tell you all this because we also have the same attitude towards HOA. Even when they are small, it's likely a 'teaser' before they grow. Plus they are a real pain to deal with. And finally HOA laws in California leave much to be desired. For example you can't sue HOA, because it's considered suing 'yourself'.
In any case, be sure to tell an agent that you won't buy a house with HOA no matter what else it has going for it.
As for real estate taxes, they are displayed on RedFin, scroll down on the page and you'll see the taxes. However, that may not be accurate for your situation. If the last sale was say for 500K, and you now buy for 250K, you can expect to pay about half of what it says there. A sale causes re-valuation of a house for tax purposes.
Also, if you use RedFin and their agent, be sure to ask for a rebate once you purchase the house. Agents often conveniently forget to mention this to you, but they are obligated to give you RedFin discount (for their fee) if you use them. So if you use RedFin agent, be sure to contact them through RedFin and tell agent that's how you found them. I saved just over $2000 this way. Not a chomp change.
If you're looking for an agent, I definitely would recommend mine! She was awesome. Their team is Redfin recommended and have great reviews there.
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