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There are plenty of affordable places to live in Temecula. They are called apartments. Just down Rancho Cali Rd, you can get one for $600/month no deposit. Just like everybody that has ever owned a home, you start with an apartment and work your way up.
So since you find a place for 600 a month, that's should be enough for an area of 200k people? Really? This is sustainable growth? First off, we were talking about APARTMENTS, not houses. Rentals imply apartments. Secondly, there should be more affordable housing units. How do you think we got into this mess? It wasn't because there was a shortage of affordable housing...
I used to be a poor and worked my tail off to have a small modest home and I'm still trying to work my way up. Most of the poor that used to surround me were not interested in trying to better themselves. They were always complaining about what everybody should be doing for them. Instead of trying to better themselves and work hard for it, they were always looking for programs that provided the easy way out.
Somehow I doubt that you were truly that poor. That and I always take a grain of salt when people start saying that ALL others around them were okay with the fact of their poverty. Knowing poor people, having gone to an inner city school, this has always been furthest from the case. Instead, they knew their position. They realized that it is harder to climb the social ladder, but they still wanted and tried. The reality of the situation is that you typically stay within the social class you were born into. Most people don't change social classes.
There are tons of programs for the upper classes. Why not have programs to aid the poor?
I remember being in college and the first thing that some of my friends would buy with a Pell Grant check was a turntable and a mixer for DJ'ing rather than books.
Again, I don't buy it completely. You are taking your experiences with a few people and generalizing it. It was maybe one or two people. With that said, I know people and the first thing they did with their Pell Grants was buy books. Actually, I know of nobody that was poor and bought turntables...typically they poorest people on campus were the hardest working.
People don't like being poor. True. In reality, people don't like working even more.
So that's why the poor and unemployed have higher suicide rates and rates of depression? Compared to the poor and employed.
I don't mind helping those that help themselves but from my experience living near these areas, most of them don't. They just complain about others keeping them down and not doing anything about it.
Again, only YOUR experiences. Because I know plenty of people that are the opposite. I don't consider limited experiences valid...that includes my own. With that said, since we seem to have differing experiences, and evidence suggests to the opposite of yours (every Urban Soc textbook, every book I've read about class, well just plain every book I've read concerning the topic of sociology disagree that poor people are only looking for a handout and not looking to truly get out of poverty, esp if it involved hard work. On the contrary, typically they will work hard to better their socio-economic position).
Speaking of role models, who would that be? Most poor kids look up to thug rappers and drug addicted musicians. The reason some of their parents are poor is because of poor choices they have made in the past. Some of these irresponsible behaviors will never change and they are sadly done at the expense of their children.
You know the rationale behind celebrity worship? We worship those that "won" socially. Thugs, rappers, and the like won in the system of dire poverty. They are the ones who run the ghetto, thus younger children emulate them. If you have positive teacher role models...like I mentioned...more mentoring programs, more sports, more arts...find something that can stick, you will provide a better role model. Also, you can cultivate a culture of peer change. It's a cycle. Also, many times the parents are too "lazy" at work at odd hours and unable to attend many functions. Some parents are even "lazier" and work two jobs.
Class mixing also has brought the quality of life down for entire neighborhoods as well. There are very wealthy areas in Santa Ana but you wouldn't know it if you went there.
No actually, it hasn't. I know Santa Ana VERY well, and yes there are some nice areas. With that said, middle class flight caused Santa Ana to become polarized. Why they left is because they share the same mentality as you. They believed the "other" (Hispanic and poor, in the case of Santa Ana) was lazy, crime ridden, etc. Thus, the tax base fell out for the city and the stigma led to decay. Now, with urban renewal in the Arts District and other parts, many realize that this mixing is actually a good thing. Studies show that mixed income schools perform better than poor schools and as well as their middle income counterparts. There are TONS more evidence to support mixed income developments, than against. Middle class flight isn't cause by mixed income developments, it's caused by ignorance and fear. This leads to polarization and hence the opposite of mixed income neighborhoods.
I guess it irrates me that people actually believe that poor people are fundementally lazy. It irks me when people say that they should just stop being poor, but they should not recieve any assistance. Sorry, Dadshall, but look the fact is that in order to have a better CA, we need to start investing in the poorest segment of the population to stop the polarization that contributing to many failures in the state of CA.
I work in the school system and am surrounded everyday by the failing social system giving away money to those who do not deserve it. Being poor doesn't make you a bad person nor does it mean you are lazy. This is a WAY more complicated situation then just having better role models and more taxes spent on community out reach programs that do not work. But aside from all of that, I do feel for those who have worked hard and have hit bad times and would like to help them. But as ALWAYS there are the lazy free loading a$$ holes who just take and take and ruin it for everyone. Who keep having babies because they know that they will get more free money and that the state will take care of them. Free babysitting, free lunch, subsidized housing... Where does it STOP. I work very hard and am drowning in a broken system and when I see that more and more money is taken from my paycheck to pay for the very people that I work hard to help so that they can have everything FREE, it angers me to no end. I am not able to by a house EITHER!!!!! But I am slowing trying to save up and get to that point but keep getting dragged down into the ditches by those who just keep taking. The who system of welfare and social reform is too messed up to stop this from happening and I have seen more cases of the "bad" scenarios then of "good" hard working people being helped. My parents both come from low income families and have good work ethics and brought themselves out of the vicious poverty cycle. Many of their brothers and sisters were not so fortunate. It takes a lot of character and hard work to make a change. And I know it's getting harder and harder to make it, I feel it myself but it's not ok to allow free loaders to take advantage of you. My husband comes from a "poor" family and has worked his way up, leaving his family behind and feels guilty about it. It's a vicious cycle but the answers are not so easy. And no one has said on here that being poor makes you a bad lazy person, but many bad lazy people happen to be poor free loaders and it is too hard to have these programs and keep them at bay. Temecula is a very affordable place and housing prices will go down all over CA and maybe more people will be able to afford them but that does not mean we should start lowering standards and giving away condos to those who don't even try. Having mixed classes is not a bad thing but for those people who are actually hard working not those who get more money back in taxes then they put in and who just gave up on life allowing others to take care of them.
WOW.. what racism..what hate..what ignorance..what attitudes...what republicanism...what arrogance....
Well Hello Neighbor.....I will be moving to your town soon and guess what? I could be living in that low income housing. But lucky for me my mother is helping me to buy a house. Something I never thought I would own. Why? Not because I am lazy. Because even when single parents work their ass off and spend time making their kids education a priority, its still hard to get ahead in this world. Why? Because many parents who choose not to have their kids raised in day care and by nannies actually care enough to work around thier childs needs. Why? Because some people are mentally ill and have depression. Why because some people are disabled and on disability and low income. Why because woman who leave abusive men and try to make it on thier own with kids or after a divorce are at time on welfare and considered low income. Why? Because not everyone is fortunate enough to go to college or get a high paying job yet they work longer and harder than any of you spoiled upper crust bigots will ever understand. I live in an apartment now. I see it all around me. They arent bad people. Some are black. some are hispanic. some are single mothers. some are not well educated. But noone is dealing drugs or into gangs. If anything these people care more about thier kids than you rich spoiled people will ever understand. Its the rich kids who end up with drug problems. Look at Hollywood. STOP STEREOTYPING. STOP LABELING. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY.
It reminds me of the old man last week who started yelling at me he was going to call the cops because I parked in a handicaped spot. He obviously didnt think I was handicaped because I look normal and dont walk with a cane or a walker or wheelchair. I LOOK healthy. But I am not. I suffer from terrible back pain. Here is my point. I told that guy, go ahead and call the cops I will have you arrested for harrassment. Why? Because I have a handicapped plate. He didnt see it but thats no excuse to lable and judge and say nasty things and harrass.
You people have no idea what is going on in the lives of these people yet you have already prejudged them and categorized them.
When I move there and buy an nice house I just hope I dont end up living next to any of you except maybe that1guy who obviously has depth and greater understanding of what matters in life. I know I will choose my new friends wisely. I am wondering if all Temecula is made up of snobs like you people and if so maybe its nice good people like me who need to be scared not visa versa.
I have known plenty of people that have worked themselves out of poverty just by working their butts off, getting skills at schools, or just being creative and coming up with a good idea. It can be done. In MY experience, I have seen too many around me not work to their full potential. These are people that I believe were and are talented but also believe will never make it due to their own irresponsible bad choices. That is something that NO program can govern is ever going to help. It's like people relying on the fact that Social Security is always going to be there to take care of their retirement. No sane person IMHO believes that yet there they are.
I support programs that help out the needy. I've donated to abused spouse and children's programs in OC whenever I could (my sister works with these poor souls). I've also PERSONALLY seen these programs abused by people I have known. I've lived near low income housing in OC and LA. I lived in poor areas of Santa Ana and Santa Ana borders with other cities and MY experience has shown me the opposite of what you are talking about.
Yes. I speak from experience and this is what my experience has taught me. It is far different from what I've read, been taught in school, or read in newspapers and studies. It has brought me to the conclusion that it's all cr@p.
I'll tell you what. I will bookmark this page and see you in about 5 years.
We shall see where this thing ends up. If these Temecula projects work, I will post how wrong I was about it and change my mind. But I will bet hard cash that there will be more problems in the area come that time.
I really really hope I'm wrong but MY experience says otherwise. I REALLY want to be wrong about this for I can't move without foreclosing.
Fear doesn't drive me. MY experience does. You can still pick up heroin on 17th and McFadden in Santa Ana. I doubt any of you would want to live there.
Because not everyone is fortunate enough to go to college or get a high paying job yet they work longer and harder than any of you spoiled upper crust bigots will ever understand... ...If anything these people care more about thier kids than you rich spoiled people will ever understand. Its the rich kids who end up with drug problems. Look at Hollywood. STOP STEREOTYPING. STOP LABELING.
Pot, meet kettle.
I worked my way out of poverty working hard, putting myself through school, and still have the student loans I'm paying off. I've even been laid off 4 times since graduating. It can be done. I am not upper crust at all. If I was, I'd live in Newport Beach.
EDIT: One more thing. Middle class flight does not happen out of fear IMO. It happens because the neighborhood in which they lived went to hell. If a neighborhood started experiencing more crime and violence would you stay?
Because not everyone is fortunate enough to go to college or get a high paying job yet they work longer and harder than any of you spoiled upper crust bigots will ever understand... ...If anything these people care more about thier kids than you rich spoiled people will ever understand. Its the rich kids who end up with drug problems. Look at Hollywood. STOP STEREOTYPING. STOP LABELING.
Pot, meet kettle.
I worked my way out of poverty working hard, putting myself through school, and still have the student loans I'm paying off. I've even been laid off 4 times since graduating. It can be done. I am not upper crust at all. If I was, I'd live in Newport Beach.
EDIT: One more thing. Middle class flight does not happen out of fear IMO. It happens because the neighborhood in which they lived went to hell. If a neighborhood started experiencing more crime and violence would you stay?
I'll just say on thing, typicallly it's fear. Almost always it's fear. Look at Compton, Santa Ana, hell, the IE. It's fear that their standard is falling and yet have no substainal evidence to prove that point. They believe it to be true because of their "experiences". Much like opinions and anuses, everyone has an "experience". People, like you did in both posts, apply said experiences to generalize EVERYONE. The thing is that with the rule of the minority illusion (I forgot the official name), we remember experiences that stick out from the norm. It is more normal to encounter a hardworking person that has a job, than a lazy person that does not even try. Thus, we apply that and generalize it to be the norm. This is a HUGE problem, this is why there is little progress made in combatting many social issues. People tend to make generalizations based on no quantative, objective evidence.
As for meeting up in 5 years, you already made your mind...even the tiniest piece of graffiti or litter will make you say "Aha" despite any good that will come out of said project.
I'll just say on thing, typicallly it's fear. Almost always it's fear. Look at Compton, Santa Ana, hell, the IE. It's fear that their standard is falling and yet have no substainal evidence to prove that point. They believe it to be true because of their "experiences". Much like opinions and anuses, everyone has an "experience". People, like you did in both posts, apply said experiences to generalize EVERYONE. The thing is that with the rule of the minority illusion (I forgot the official name), we remember experiences that stick out from the norm. It is more normal to encounter a hardworking person that has a job, than a lazy person that does not even try. Thus, we apply that and generalize it to be the norm. This is a HUGE problem, this is why there is little progress made in combatting many social issues. People tend to make generalizations based on no quantative, objective evidence.
As for meeting up in 5 years, you already made your mind...even the tiniest piece of graffiti or litter will make you say "Aha" despite any good that will come out of said project.
Come on, guy,
I have been open minded my entire life to these sorts of things but seeing it first hand, I have come to one conclusion; People when given the choice of taking a path that bears less responsibility and less resistance will usually take it.
When cars are broken into, stereos taken, drugs start being dealt, and gangs start popping up would you ride it out and stay? If leaving is succumbing to fear, I equate it to having common sense.
Nothing is wrong with living in an apartment. I've done it for years. After a lot of hard work, I was able to buy a modest home which I am now completely upside down in. Am I complaining? No. I'm going to keep working this out and live within my means.
Have you seen some of these "low income housing units" out here? They are essentially LARGE APARTMENTS. Condos, if you will. So we are going to be subsidizing low income earners to live in large apartments that are affordable and already available in the city?
As for meeting up in 5 years, you already made your mind...even the tiniest piece of graffiti or litter will make you say "Aha" despite any good that will come out of said project.
I don't care about graffiti. We already have that. I'm talking real criminal activity that makes it less safe to raise families here. Despite studies that say the contrary, I have lived around these areas and my experiences counter those. And before somebody charges me with racism or whatever, I'm a minority and I'm very glad that I have broken the cycle.
Some of my friends from those days are in prison, dead, or strung out. No government program they ever were involved in prevented them from hurting those around them and prevented them from making bad choices.
EDIT: As for meeting up in 5 years if the project brings the quality of life down in the area, you will most likely blame it on not enough tax dollars or "white flight" (even though that doesn't apply to me). I'll still be here in 5 years and like I said if everything works out for the better, I will put up a post stating how wrong I was.
One more thing, guy,
There are now plenty of studies that say man made global warming isn't real. Should I listen to those too?
Nice!
(tried to rep you again, but I have to spread it around...)
I tried to rep him for you, but I couldn't either!
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