Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I totally agree with this. Perhaps there was a time and place when this really made sense. Before the housing industry became what it is today.
Now its just status quo to build in the tax deduction as the norm instead of something that was on a timer or had an expiration date.
The "Audacity of Hope" in addressing issues such as this are political suicide and the likelihood of actually seeing it eliminated are slim to none with elections coming up.
I still dont rule out that it would be eliminated with the perfect storm of law makers and administration though.
Yeah Shmoov. I feel the same way. I know it's political suicide to bring up a topic like this so close to the elections and I personally don't think they will get rid of it any time in the immediate future.
It's not a matter I feel so strongly about. I just wouldn't mind if they got rid of it. Even the people that are against it, I don't think they feel so strongly against it so I doubt anything will happen with it.
It's clear that some changes need to be made with the current system and deductions, etc. I'm not sure anyone has any real solutions. Such a mess but I always hold out hope that in the future there will be some steps in the right direction.
Like Sassberto, I do get tired of subsidizing everyone with my income. I think many feel the same way. Probably why someone like Cain is making strides with some people with his controversial 9-9-9 plan. I don't think the poor and lower middle class should get a total free pass on paying taxes. And I don't think the mega wealthy 1% should be getting as many deductions as they're getting. There should be a happy medium....
I want to see real data that shows how many 'on the fence' mortgage holders there are where a MID elimination would more than likely cause them to strategically default. I am willing to be that the number is very high. Especially in higher end areas like NCC. The AMT already limits the deductions of "high earners" (I really think the AMT limits should be raised but that is another topic). A MID elimination would decimate the middle class.
"I don't think the poor and lower middle class should get a total free pass on paying taxes. "
When and where does this happen in the U.S.? Just about everyone pays some sort of tax be it Sales, Payroll, Property, Federal - right? So this statement isn't altogether correct!
You are correct that some earn enough to be below the Federal Tax limit and do not pay federal tax. But again there are tax loopholes that the rich can utilize that allow them not to pay all the tax considered requisite to the money "earned."
And Sassberto, based on your previous post, I don't think you fall into the Super Rich category.
I'm a strong proponent of reforming our tax code, but I'm not for some of the regressive tax plans currently being bantied about.
"I don't think the poor and lower middle class should get a total free pass on paying taxes. "
When and where does this happen in the U.S.? Just about everyone pays some sort of tax be it Sales, Payroll, Property, Federal - right? So this statement isn't altogether correct!
You are correct that some earn enough to be below the Federal Tax limit and do not pay federal tax. But again there are tax loopholes that the rich can utilize that allow them not to pay all the tax considered requisite to the money "earned."
And Sassberto, based on your previous post, I don't think you fall into the Super Rich category.
I'm a strong proponent of reforming our tax code, but I'm not for some of the regressive tax plans currently being bantied about.
Yea, just call me one of those OWSers.
I'm not saying that there are people that pay NO taxes at all. Sure, everyone pays sales tax, etc. But there are quite a significant amount of American households that pay no federal individual income tax.
So that's what I meant when I said a "free pass". Of course there are exceptions to the rule but I definitely think that there needs to be major reform to our tax structure and system. I recall reading a formal study where it said 46% of American households will pay no federal income tax in 2011. I don't think this is right. Especially when many of these people are buying the latest electronics, traveling around on vacations and buying a ton of crap they don't need or can afford. I'm sure we all know people like this.
Absolutely I think the 1%'s should be paying much more taxes. But I also think that there needs to be systematic changes.
I'm not saying that there are people that pay NO taxes at all. Sure, everyone pays sales tax, etc. But there are quite a significant amount of American households that pay no federal individual income tax.
So that's what I meant when I said a "free pass". Of course there are exceptions to the rule but I definitely think that there needs to be major reform to our tax structure and system. I recall reading a formal study where it said 46% of American households will pay no federal income tax in 2011. I don't think this is right. Especially when many of these people are buying the latest electronics, traveling around on vacations and buying a ton of crap they don't need or can afford. I'm sure we all know people like this.
Absolutely I think the 1%'s should be paying much more taxes. But I also think that there needs to be systematic changes.
Agree with the reform part. Whether folks are buying flat screens or going to Mexico on vacation is really none of my business. Paying taxes that are rightfully owed does concern me, and I don't have a problem with something equitable being in place that can be applied to every wage earner; I just haven't heard anything out there that has triggered my imagination. I do wish I were smart enough to have an answer to the "fair tax" conumdrum. But even if I or any decision maker did, it wouldn't get through Congress in this current environment.
Agree with the reform part. Whether folks are buying flat screens or going to Mexico on vacation is really none of my business. Paying taxes that are rightfully owed does concern me, and I don't have a problem with something equitable being in place that can be applied to every wage earner; I just haven't heard anything out there that has triggered my imagination. I do wish I were smart enough to have an answer to the "fair tax" conumdrum. But even if I or any decision maker did, it wouldn't get through Congress in this current environment.
Well, I look at it a bit different than you do. It is MY business if these people that aren't paying any Federal taxes because they supposedly are at too low of an income level are out taking trips they can't really afford and buying tons of junk. Because by paying lots of taxes, in a way I'm subsidizing them.
People get this misconception that the top 1%'s are out there making millions of dollars per year. Yeah, some of them are but for 2010 here are the #'s according to the IRS:
Top 1%: $380,354
Top 5%: $159,619
Top 10%: $113,799
Top 25% $67,280
Top 50%: $33,048
No doubt the people making millions a year and the billionaires like Buffet if they want to pay more taxes each year I think they should. But I think people have to be careful assuming that all these 1%'s are evil or corrupt. I know many 1%'s that are some of the hardest working people you could ever meet.
And I bet most of us know plenty of people making the top 5% or themselves are in the 5% club. And I'd surely bet that lots of people aspire to be in the 1% some day.
Definitely reform is necessary but I don't know of a clear and fair way either. But I wouldn't just go about it only taxing the highest 1%'ers. The top 1%'ers already pay 38% of all income taxes each year. So I don't think it's simply a solution of only taxing the top 1% more. Many of these people paying no federal income taxes need to start contributing as well.
Well, I look at it a bit different than you do. It is MY business if these people that aren't paying any Federal taxes because they supposedly are at too low of an income level are out taking trips they can't really afford and buying tons of junk. Because by paying lots of taxes, in a way I'm subsidizing them.
People get this misconception that the top 1%'s are out there making millions of dollars per year. Yeah, some of them are but for 2010 here are the #'s according to the IRS:
Top 1%: $380,354
Top 5%: $159,619
Top 10%: $113,799
Top 25% $67,280
Top 50%: $33,048
No doubt the people making millions a year and the billionaires like Buffet if they want to pay more taxes each year I think they should. But I think people have to be careful assuming that all these 1%'s are evil or corrupt. I know many 1%'s that are some of the hardest working people you could ever meet.
And I bet most of us know plenty of people making the top 5% or themselves are in the 5% club. And I'd surely bet that lots of people aspire to be in the 1% some day.
Definitely reform is necessary but I don't know of a clear and fair way either. But I wouldn't just go about it only taxing the highest 1%'ers. The top 1%'ers already pay 38% of all income taxes each year. So I don't think it's simply a solution of only taxing the top 1% more. Many of these people paying no federal income taxes need to start contributing as well.
okay, I think I said some of the same things with fewer words! However, you are correct we may view things differently regarding dictating someone else's lifestyle. I am not of the belief that if you are wealthy, then you must be evil; nor do I feel all poor are lazy.
I 'm just not enamoured with the wealthy, just because they are; they didn't get wealthy all on their own. And I don't even want to get into the Bankers and Hedge Fuinders; as a matter of fact this is beginning to Tick me off just writing about it, so I'm going to wish you a Good Night!
"I don't think the poor and lower middle class should get a total free pass on paying taxes. "
When and where does this happen in the U.S.? Just about everyone pays some sort of tax be it Sales, Payroll, Property, Federal - right? So this statement isn't altogether correct!
You are correct that some earn enough to be below the Federal Tax limit and do not pay federal tax. But again there are tax loopholes that the rich can utilize that allow them not to pay all the tax considered requisite to the money "earned."
And Sassberto, based on your previous post, I don't think you fall into the Super Rich category.
I'm a strong proponent of reforming our tax code, but I'm not for some of the regressive tax plans currently being bantied about.
Yea, just call me one of those OWSers.
You can definitely call ME one of those OWSers!!
I've never seen it this bad in this country. ALL of my friends are going through horrible times economically and mentally and are stressed out beyond their breaking point. I can't see them continuing to live like this. It is literally killing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyretirement
And I bet most of us know plenty of people making the top 5% or themselves are in the 5% club. And I'd surely bet that lots of people aspire to be in the 1% some day.
Definitely reform is necessary but I don't know of a clear and fair way either. But I wouldn't just go about it only taxing the highest 1%'ers. The top 1%'ers already pay 38% of all income taxes each year. So I don't think it's simply a solution of only taxing the top 1% more. Many of these people paying no federal income taxes need to start contributing as well.
I don't know what kind of people you know, but the friends that I have who are poor and struggling (which is most of them), ration their energy use, have 2 and 3 jobs, sometimes can't go to work due to not having gas money or are selling their plasma (blood, not TVs) and used CDs and books trying to keep a roof over their and their kids' heads and are still paying their share of taxes. Buying plasma screens and taking trips ANYWHERE are definitely not even on their radar, let alone things they can even ponder doing at some point in the future. So I can't imagine that the people who are so poor they aren't paying ANY taxes are doing any better.
Oh and I don't know anybody in the top 5%, so consider yourself lucky to know "plenty".
Last edited by scratchNsniff; 10-25-2011 at 03:03 AM..
I want to see real data that shows how many 'on the fence' mortgage holders there are where a MID elimination would more than likely cause them to strategically default. I am willing to be that the number is very high. Especially in higher end areas like NCC. The AMT already limits the deductions of "high earners" (I really think the AMT limits should be raised but that is another topic). A MID elimination would decimate the middle class.
I agree with this. While I dont think it would be too alarming to see the numbers within a given subset (newer tract home communities) for me, it would certainly be revealing to publish for people to see.
There are plenty of folks in SD that can afford to live where they live. Whether its through personal wealth, estate planning within the family or a little of both.
Another item of note which I followed was how many home owners have their titles in living trusts here in SD. Just punch up a street, neighbors houses and cross reference it with the SD Treas website.
MID would clean out the middle class out of any rent\own advantage. Actually it would depress the market and leave it totally susceptible to foreign or domestic investment on a grand scale.
May be changing gears in this discussion... (a little) but my lease is up in January and I am considering buying a home here. Condo vs. single family is first up. I can think of several pluses on both sides HOA vs. Maintaining a home is the biggest. Would appreciate thoughts here from your experience. Price to $400k.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Paying taxes that are rightfully owed does concern me, and I don't have a problem with something equitable being in place that can be applied to every wage earner; I just haven't heard anything out there that has triggered my imagination. I do wish I were smart enough to have an answer to the "fair tax" conumdrum. But even if I or any decision maker did, it wouldn't get through Congress in this current environment.
