What's wrong with my future home town?! (San Diego: section 8, rentals)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

And that, in a nutshell, is our problem. We want all sorts of services, but we don't want to pay for them. Hey, guess what, folks? If you want a high level of service, you need to pay for it. Oh, sure, politicians will promise you, oh, we don't need to raise taxes, we'll just cut all the waste out.

There's no question that there is waste in government, as there is in any large organization. But people since Ronald Reagan have been promising that we would be able to provide a high level of services and give people tax cuts because we'd find so much waste.

How's that working out?

We have to decide what level of services we want our government to provide and then we have to set taxes at a level that allows us to pay for those. We can't have high services and low taxes.

You don't walk into a five star restaurant and expect to pay McDonald's prices. Why people think they can do that with government services is beyond me.

Some of us have never been to a 5 star restaurant and we certainly have nothing against those that patronize them as long as we are not expected to chip-in.

Part of the problem is taxes never seem to be enough and/or they end up going to things never envisioned when passed.

Los Angeles spent half a billion on a high school?

Gasoline taxes were only to be spent on highways now go to mass transit?

Local Property Taxes that supported local schools for decades now go to the State to allocate post Serrano?

Voters approve a State lottery solely because it will buttress education and then learn some schools receive a small allotment for sports equipment?

Most I think are not adverse to money well spent... on the other hand, the State has over 12,000 government retirees with pensions over 100k per year and some have much more...

A high school friend of mine retired from the a city Police Department at age 51 with a lifetime pension of 180k per year and full medical...

These things are unsustainable...

The one thing voters have been able to do with some success is curtail the implementation of new taxes...

This was not always so... there are California cities with property owners paying double the Prop 13 rate solely because the voters have been very generous over the years in approving most tax increase measures...

What you are seeing now is belt-tightening... people have lost tremendous equity and for many, their retirement funds have been decimated...

It comes as no surprise to me that the public has a firm grip on the purse strings in this economy...

I for one would gladly accept a lower level of service if it meant I can keep more of what I earn...

California is not a low tax State... neighboring States have fewer taxes then we do... no income tax in Nevada and no State sales tax in Oregon...

[rtmayor]

Originally Posted by Darth Vespa

My wife and I have bought a downtown condo and are excited about retiring in S.D. and escaping the frozen upper midwest. But, as my thread's title suggests, there's something about America's Finest City that we just don't understand: why are the residents absolutely opposed to paying even reasonable taxes?

I've recently finished Paradise Plundered and I've learned a ton about the city; I'd recommend it highly, as others have on this site. I understand the pension fund debacle, but not the refusal to deal head-on with taxes to undue the damage, to fix infrastructure, schools, etc.

What prompts this post is a poll in the Union-Tribune online a couple of days ago. It asked Yes/No, would you support new taxes to improve the city's schools? I voted yes and clicked for the poll results. No surprise, I guess: an overwhelming "No" vote! What gives with San Diego?

"I UNDERSTAND THAT CITY EMPLOYEES HAVE ASTRONOMICAL PENSIONS, AND THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THIS IS TO RAISE TAXES"

LOL

but seriously, I did an accounting internship at the city HR department (specifically working pension disbursement) and it really gives you a sick feeling in your stomach when you see the city cutting services because the cost of employee pensions is rising so rapidly. And the assumption that taxpayers will bail the city out since infrastructure/education/police will but cut before pensions. The city is holding a gun to the taxpayers head and you guys will be paying more one way or another, trust me on this.

[SDrelocate]

Perhaps Meredith Whitney is right.....we will see a wave of muni bond defaults in the hundreds of billions of dollars in coming years. I tend to agree with her. She saw the subprime debacle coming few years back. Interesting 60 minutes story on her.

Just a quick comment on some of these "polls" you see by news organizations. I cringe when I see on TV, e.g. "vote your choice". These are COMPLETELY worthless. They are unscientific, users are self selected, sample sizes are typically too small, they are for entertainment purposes ONLY. I don't know why any decent news organization would even do these.

[brad4143]

Whatever, I moved out of California for the main reason of high taxes amd cost of living. Everyone in the the state and local government is irresponsible and couldn't even balance a checkbook. As far as quality of life its much better for my family in the midwest then it was in San Diego. 1/8th the property taxes, 1/5 th the housing costs, 1/4th the crime, no traffic and we have over 11 acres with home. Best decision I have ever made. Those liberals in Sacramento make me sick to my stomach.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by brad4143

Whatever, I moved out of California for the main reason of high taxes amd cost of living. Everyone in the the state and local government is irresponsible and couldn't even balance a checkbook. As far as quality of life its much better for my family in the midwest then it was in San Diego. 1/8th the property taxes, 1/5 th the housing costs, 1/4th the crime, no traffic and we have over 11 acres with home. Best decision I have ever made. Those liberals in Sacramento make me sick to my stomach.

You do make the point that, contrary to what those in Sacramento say... California Is Not a Low Tax State...

[starkt]

A lot of the problem with taxes is that it is untrue that "we" (all of us) pay them. Almost half of Americans pay no federal income taxes. And the ones who pay the most (the top 10% of income earners pay over half of all federal income taxes that are collected) are attacked as selfish rich people who don't contribute enough.

The City of San Diego gets its money from federal income taxes (in the form of block grants), state income taxes (also in the form of grants), property taxes and sales taxes.

A large population of relatively poor people do not pay much in taxes, but use a lot of what the taxes pay for. So that leaves a relatively small group paying for most everything. That group is not willing to pay more because there is little accountability for how their money is spent. What is worse, the whole tax system is corrupt.

What I mean by this is that politicians pay off their supporters with other people's tax money.

If they're Democrats, they pay off the unionized government employees whose unions contribute money to their campaigns by giving those employees lavish taxpayer-funded pay and benefits (far in excess of the norm in the private sector), early retirement, etc. If they're Republicans, they pay off corporations and developers with what amounts to corporate welfare.

Our entire nation has been corrupted, and we are headed towards bankruptcy.

The only recourse for taxpayers is to oppose new taxes.

[tonyinsd]

I tell you what. I'd rather make $100K and pay 30 percent of it to the federales than make $25K and pay nothing in taxes.

Yes, a good chunk of the population doesn't pay income tax. That's because they are poor. Most of them are working. Many of them are people with some skills.

For example, there are many pilots at regional airlines that qualify for food stamps.

These are people who have four years of college and have spent another $40-50K getting advanced training. So they're not uneducated high school dropouts.

It's really easy to denigrate those who get public assistance as just leaches and slackers. But if you look beyond the soundbites, you find that many of them are people who have jobs and just don't get paid well. Some of them, especially in a high unemployment environment, are people with training and skills.

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

I tell you what. I'd rather make $100K and pay 30 percent of it to the federales than make $25K and pay nothing in taxes.

Yes, a good chunk of the population doesn't pay income tax. That's because they are poor. Most of them are working. Many of them are people with some skills.

For example, there are many pilots at regional airlines that qualify for food stamps.

These are people who have four years of college and have spent another $40-50K getting advanced training. So they're not uneducated high school dropouts.

It's really easy to denigrate those who get public assistance as just leaches and slackers. But if you look beyond the soundbites, you find that many of them are people who have jobs and just don't get paid well. Some of them, especially in a high unemployment environment, are people with training and skills.

I agree here with tonyinsd. These are challenging times and the problem is going extreme right or left ALWAYS proves a point to those that dont care to have a real solution. There is always a bigger picture.
The folks making enough to stay right above the cusp of the poverty line. In the past these some of these folks may have been working two or three jobs to get full time hours. Now perhaps they still do, but are making less because hours have been cut.

However what I think is the biggest travesty is our armed services men and women returning home to see that they either need to stay in the military or deal with a crappy economy. They are now being asked to compete for jobs that they may not have skills for when companies are being conservative with their hiring practices. Apparently the President has come out with some tax incentive to hire some of these folks, which is good. I just hope its a program that means something to businesses enough to hire some of these service men and women.

[oddstray]

The top 10% may pay over the top 50% in taxes, but I'd wager a bet that the top 10% hold far more than 50% of the wealth and income. So I have no sympathy for their tiny violins.

[tonyinsd]

Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd

Apparently the President has come out with some tax incentive to hire some of these folks, which is good. I just hope its a program that means something to businesses enough to hire some of these service men and women.

One douchebag of a Senator voted against that. He said that the government shouldn't be giving preferential treatment to people. Yes, because people who went overseas and got shot at don't deserve an edge. I guess if he were in Congress right after WWII, he'd have voted against the GI Bill, too.

I also think that one of the most disgraceful statistics in America is the fact that about a quarter of the people who are homeless are veterans. These people went to fight for us. We owe them a whole hell of a lot more than a heating grate to sleep on.