What's wrong with my future home town?! (San Diego, Sacramento: sales, condo)

[Darth Vespa]

My wife and I have bought a downtown condo and are excited about retiring in S.D. and escaping the frozen upper midwest. But, as my thread's title suggests, there's something about America's Finest City that we just don't understand: why are the residents absolutely opposed to paying even reasonable taxes?

I've recently finished Paradise Plundered and I've learned a ton about the city; I'd recommend it highly, as others have on this site. I understand the pension fund debacle, but not the refusal to deal head-on with taxes to undue the damage, to fix infrastructure, schools, etc.

What prompts this post is a poll in the Union-Tribune online a couple of days ago. It asked Yes/No, would you support new taxes to improve the city's schools? I voted yes and clicked for the poll results. No surprise, I guess: an overwhelming "No" vote! What gives with San Diego?

[Clevelandgal]

^ I wonder if it is the older generation here that figures since they have what they need who cares about the future health and welfare of others and the city. I probably won't check back on this thread though because I expect it will blow up with people grousing about immigrants and so on.

[oddstray]

The Union Tribune is a right-leaning newspaper. So its readership is not necessarily reflective of San Diego in general.

The reluctance to raise any taxes to take care of struggling governments isn't only in San Diego. It seems to be all over the country. I, also, don't understand it. People want more services but are not willing to pay for it. What sort of sense does that make? I suppose they're seeing all the government fat-cats who make good money (including their superior benefits) and figure that must mean we're all paying quite enough in taxes already.

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Definitely an interesting topic to say the least. I also agree with the others above. Its definitely not exclusive to San Diego.
Since I have lived in CA, when it came to Propositions come ballot time, almost anything that I have seen over the past 7-8 years that has to do with ANY kind of tax increase is voted down.

Two years ago (I believe) there was a tax increase proposed to help pay for Police and Fire services. However it was voted down. Why the people turned against it, no one really knows, but from what I had read and seen on the news, there were some councilmen against it panning it as backdoor tax to actually pay for said groups pensions than actually pay for current services.

I personally think we are in the middle of coming to a massive turning point in accountability and awareness when it comes to spending on a national level. When you start hitting peoples pocket books and wallets people get testy because they really want to know what its going to pay for. Somtimes IMHO it seems some levels or Govt rob Peter to pay Paul.

Its a tough sell when there is a lack of in depth reporting in the media and just TOO much information to digest for the layman to make an informed decision.

A poll from the UT is interesting, but definitely not "the voice" of SD. I dont know any media outlet that is. Try reading the Voice of San Diego or KPBS. While not perfect, they do offer a little more to chew on that can at least offset what you may be seeing or reading from other outlets.

[tonyinsd]

And that, in a nutshell, is our problem. We want all sorts of services, but we don't want to pay for them. Hey, guess what, folks? If you want a high level of service, you need to pay for it. Oh, sure, politicians will promise you, oh, we don't need to raise taxes, we'll just cut all the waste out.

There's no question that there is waste in government, as there is in any large organization. But people since Ronald Reagan have been promising that we would be able to provide a high level of services and give people tax cuts because we'd find so much waste.

How's that working out?

We have to decide what level of services we want our government to provide and then we have to set taxes at a level that allows us to pay for those. We can't have high services and low taxes.

You don't walk into a five star restaurant and expect to pay McDonald's prices. Why people think they can do that with government services is beyond me.

[loveautumn]

maybe because millions, maybe billions, have been poured into the California education system, which is a black hole of wasted money. The quality of our education proves it...more money does not equal better education. Most realize now that the education system here can be fixed by throwing more money at it.

[NYSD1995]

San Diego has a large population of wealthy retirees and military, both of which tend to vote conservatively and have an anti-tax sentiment. It is a long tradition in San Diego to be anti-tax while demanding high levels of services. San Diego also has a long tradition of corruption in city government.

The current reckoning, as you can see, appears to be the unwinding of those once-high service levels into what the tax rolls can actually afford.

[kettlepot]

You also have to take into account that California's Sales and Income Taxes are far above the national norm. These taxes self adjust for higher wages and the general effects of inflation, and yet Sacramento keeps plumping for higher and higher rates. Besides these general taxes, there are ever increasing fees (and fines) that have to be paid. Yet, as Sassberto pointed out, services are being hollowed out because more room has to be found to accommodate the wage COLA's, Time-in-Service increases, and expanded pension pay outs promised to government employees. If there is no way to avoid paying gold-plated wages and benefits to government employees, I guess the voters have decided that there will be cuts until there is only one employee left. And that day is fast approaching.

[MovingAloha]

I'm just going to be a mockingbird and agree with all of the above. I will add, in a general sort of way, that we have become very lazy and want things aka via the drive thru. We should become far more attentive and involved in what our elected official are doing and saying and make sure we hold them accountable for hypocrisy and inaffectiveness (if that's a word). That takes time and effort.

I'm an old lady now, but I grew up with our California system of referenda and propositions and I think there use to be a time when many of the props were effective, but since the prop 13 phenomenon, everyone is so distrustful of "Taxes" that they have become irrational about how things work. I also agree that the older our citizenry get the more mean-spirited and, yes, selfish - the old "I got mine, so the hell with you."

People, just think of your own household, yes you cut back on the "wants" and that will help you get your needs, but prices don't stay static and you will pay and paying means revenue must comes in at some point.

OIY! Both sides have good points. I hate taxes, but pay them because I like police protection, fire departments available when I need them, schools for my children, roads that help me get from one point to another, services for me and others when we need the support and when I'm ready to travel, a government that will assist me in getting my passport.

[Darth Vespa]

All of these replies help me gain perspective, they make sense, and I thank you. I come from a high tax state too (Wisconsin). And I know that San Diego has a conservative newspaper and conservative roots, in general. But I'm like TonyinSD--we need to accept the responsibility to pay for our quality of life. And, as Oddstray says, it's a nationwide issue. Maybe there's a gradual realization building, if rumors that the congressional Super-committee is moving towards some new taxes to meet the debt crisis.