Are We Safer - California Gun Laws (August: transporting, homes)

[dank]

Originally Posted by oddstray

I'd prefer that to having law abiding citizens carrying loaded concealed weapons. Then we all know what we're getting into, and who to stay away from if we're bothered by it.

I'd more prefer no weapons like, nominally, Great Britian. Yeah, I know, they have hunting gear, but that doesn't seem to be used much for crime. And I'm sure they have the occasional concealed weapon that gets used for crime. And they're not called "knifecrime island" for nothing. But I suspect you're much more likely to survive a knife attack than a gun attack.

In other words, suspend the 2nd Amendment? Brilliant idea

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by oddstray

I guess that makes mine even more of a pipe dream - I'd want to include shutting down that black market. I wonder if it's even possible. Do concealable-weapon black markets exist in, say, European countries? Or Canada?

How about Mexico. Look no further than what's going on down there. I work with people that tell me they all have illegal guns because the cops sure aren't going to help.

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by dank

In other words, suspend the 2nd Amendment? Brilliant idea

The point of the second amendment was that the citizens of the country should never be in danger from their military, in case their military went rogue (that had been a not-rare occurrence in the world up to the 1770's). Looking at the weapons our military now has, the second amendment has been rendered obsolete by circumstances, since no citizens or group of citizens has any chance of having counter-weapons to that.

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

How about Mexico. Look no further than what's going on down there. I work with people that tell me they all have illegal guns because the cops sure aren't going to help.

This isn't Mexico, so I don't think what's going on down there now is relevant to a discussion of U.S. gun laws ...

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by oddstray

This isn't Mexico, so I don't think what's going on down there now is relevant to a discussion of U.S. gun laws ...

Then neither are your references to Great Britain. Or Canada. You are turning this into some type of Burger King argument.

[Steamboat45]

Originally Posted by oddstray

The monster who comes to my car or home knows, as studies show, that most of the time even if I have a weapon, I won't use it against him/her, and it'd be more likely that s/he'd wind up using it against me.

This is just nonsense. The only studies that supports this drivel come from the Brady Bunch and other anti-gun-anything groups and advocates.

The facts are that legitimate studies derived from actual interviews with convicted felons show that they avoided committing crimes when they even thought the victim was armed.

I cannot image being irresponsible enough not to have a plan and equipment to defend one's family in the face of danger. To me it's unthinkable.

What are you going to tell your wife or children in the aftermath of a preventable horrific event when they look at you and ask, "Dad, why didn't you do something?"

And for those who think calling the police is the answer, here is an unfortunate fact of life in our dangerous world: "When seconds count, help is only minutes away."

[Zembonez]

Liberal people like touchy feely "safe" little laws that make them feel better. After all, outlawing guns in the hands of criminals has stopped all gun crime in this country - right?

Restrictive gun laws only punish the law abiding citizen.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Zembonez

Liberal people like touchy feely "safe" little laws that make them feel better. After all, outlawing guns in the hands of criminals has stopped all gun crime in this country - right?

Restrictive gun laws only punish the law abiding citizen.

Gun laws don't stop criminals any more than restraining orders.

[Venusian_Artist]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

Besides, as I said, it is far more likely you will shoot someone you know with that gun than an intruder.

Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in ... [N Engl J Med. 1993] - PubMed - NCBI

Congratulations on picking one of the few outlier studies that paints gun ownership in a negative light. And that, from almost twenty years ago. What, nothing more recent that hasn't been debunked eight ways till Tuesday? You have some reading to do to:

Kellermann-Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home
Firearms & Liberty (four links at this link.)
Kellerman Debunked! (layman's reading of the study.)
FOXNews.com - Gun Control Science Misfires - Opinion (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7217,00.html - broken link)
Dave Kopel on NRO

Danger to children: Guns vs. pools
Op-ed piece on swimming pools vs. guns as the most dangerous weapon : Deltoid

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Then neither are your references to Great Britain. Or Canada. You are turning this into some type of Burger King argument.

Not correct. You were comparing the US as it is to Mexico. I was comparing the US as I would prefer it to be to Great Britain. Not the same thing.

I'm not turning this into any sort of argument. I'm expressing my opinions, and you're expressing your opinions. All of which are equally legitimate.

(And what the heck is a "Burger King argument"?)