Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Love it, "cliched" granite! I am fine with granite in modern homes, but I was so sick of unoriginal tacky granite and ceramic tile remodels ( we get it, you shop at home depot) of vintage homes,
I refused to look at them when the realtor sent them. now we ended up with a 50's house with original solid wood cabinets and counters (laminate with stainless steel trim! Which I now love and would only replace with a replica) and awful 2000 era sheet vinyl floor in kitchen in bath which dragged the whole place down. We ended up pulling the floors in these rooms and putting in vintage inspired armstong vct tile and it is awesome. The website rentrorenovation which focuses in mid century homes was a huge inspiration. Anyway despite the fact our home will not win any archetectural awards, the thought of putting granite and 12 inch tile floors in left me cold.
For what ever reason, we were spared from seeing absolute dumps. I think in certain areas these days, investors get these before they even hit the market for the rest of us.
Tangent over....ugg granite.
Lol
We dont dislike granite per se and we get the whole selling point ,' this is what buyers want' to the masses but we were seeing some gorgeous 1920 Craftsman homes that were 'updated' to look more modern. Not just some $400 faux stainless steel fridge and weird granite slab island where it doesn't belong in the kitchen. No way not over half a million and marginally OK location where we would still be as car centric as we are now.
Kind of like taking a vintage car and tossing in Corinthian leather seats. Sounds impressive, photographs well, but just not a good fit.
There are a handful of rennovators out there that are buying some of these homes and really doing nice work like Tom Tarrant.
I know we were very lucky with our place. No it won't any architectural digest awards because it is a cookie cutter ranch, but man was this thing well maintaned and updated tastefully.
Glad to hear your place is coming along! Sounds like you did some nice work yourselves in there! That website is great! Gonna show the wife :-)
Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 08-21-2012 at 08:20 AM..
Exactly. Most of the good properties on the coast or not far from it don't take too long to sell if it's in move in ready condition and the owners aren't absolutely crazy with pricing.
I've always said that in desirable areas, there is always going to be demand, especially in good school districts. I waited on the sidelines for many years before buying in San Diego but I figured last year was a good time to jump back in the SD real estate market.
Also, you have a situation where rental prices on prime real estate is very expensive so many aren't selling unless they really need to. I think that many people that had to sell or were getting foreclosed on got flushed out. Of course there are still more that will default but many sellers are holding out now from listing their properties until the market gets even stronger.
I'm still very confident that in desirable neighborhoods of San Diego, we'll surpass peak levels in the future. It will take several years but it WILL happen.
Nothing goes up or down forever. Just as the bulls were wrong that real estate prices would go up forever...you had bears that thought real estate prices would go down forever. That just is never the case with real estate.
Yeah, this goes without saying!
We aren't worried where we are. But for the coastal communities and areas like where you are, the demand will always be ripe and the likelihood of some offsetting risk is minimal.
The business and psychology of residential real estate is fascinating.
I also can't stand all the "Modernization" of old craftsman vintage style homes. It seems like everyone who purchases one of these craftsmans, whined up destroying the originality of the whole thing, replacing the old windows with modern ones, stucco the hell out of them, paint them bland, or off the wall colors that don't look good at all.
Why can't these people just do minor improvements to them, instead of totally destroying the original look? The whole point of buying something this old, is because it's unique and not "Cookie Cutter" like how the majority of SD homes are. So when someone comes in, and completely replaces what makes these types of homes very attractive, personally, it devalues the home IMO, regardless of how nice or expensive the upgrades were made to increase the so called "perceived" value of the home.
You see this kind of stuff happening all over in places like North Park and South Park. It's simply insane to see prices for homes that are so tiny, selling for well over $500,000. I mean, these area's not hyper active neighborhoods that are in the same intensity like cities such as NYC, SF, Chicago, or other big East Coast cities which are super fast paced, "lively" cities. If anything, SD neighborhoods in comparison are more quiet and calm depending on the location, so honestly people that are paying that kind of money is outragoues since the value you are getting is so poor, even in places like South Park, although it is nice place with character, but it is hardly the kind of neighborhood where I would pay almost a million dollars to live, when the ghetto is a mile away, and it's not as exciting or as engaging like neighborhoods in SF are. Plus it's urban/suburban in a way.
I mean what kind of people are buying these crazy over priced homes?
If San Diego is going to continue to have a housing shortage with less inventory out there, how is anyone in the middle class or poor, ever going to be able to afford to live and work here and be able to survive at the same time, when prices of homes will continue to rise and become more expensive? Even older neighborhoods, not just in the old part of SD is becoming over priced for the average person and family, but now suburban homes in poorer neighborhoods are going up in value. The "Hoods" in SD is now out pricing people, just imagine if you wanted to live in a somewhat decent part of town? You will now have to pay mucho $$$ for a slight improvement in safety, cleanness, class, and average schools over the crappier parts of SD. It's simply not worth it.
It's truly gotten out of control. I blame most of the artificial increase in value of busted up homes on investors. These people are all out to flip homes for the maximum profit, but all this does is price out a large part of the population that maybe would have been able to purchase the home if it wasn't for the greed of investor mentality. It's just crazy how many people are buying homes at such high prices. I wonder if any of these homebuyers thought for one second, "Was this truly worth it"? Sometimes I believe common sense fly's out the window when it comes to peoples home buying decision making. I understand that location is everything, but it's like now days, just about every city in the County is expensive to live in. La Mesa for instance, nothing "hip" or "popular" about it, but older homes in that community in suburban La Mesa are priced above $500k! Old, 3 bedroom homes, that is strictly residential far away from any main commercial stripe. So it's all of SD that I am seeing price increases.
This is why I am leaving this place for good, I only see prices going up here. Population keeps increasing in SD, not enough job growth to keep up with the population growth, or should I say, high paying jobs that enable people to purchase the over priced real estate we have.
Even if SD built thousands of new housing stock, prices of homes will still be very high, because the majority of new homes being built in SD and in CA in general, are catered towards the wealthy, and or are not affordable to a lot of middle class citizens, and or working class families, it's mainly for the upper middle class segment per say. That is what I'm seeing.
This is why I am leaving this place for good, I only see prices going up here. Population keeps increasing in SD, not enough job growth to keep up with the population growth, or should I say, high paying jobs that enable people to purchase the over priced real estate we have.
sdlife619,
Just out of curiosity, where did you decide to move to?
I do agree with you that I see prices going up. There was a tremendous shake out of people that really couldn't afford their homes and overextended. But many of those people have been shaken out of San Diego.
I found prices here at the peak a few years ago far too expensive and I certainly wouldn't have paid them and waited on the sidelines until last year. But I think they will be headed back up there in the next decade or so. And rental rates should continue to increase as well in desirable areas of SD.
Just out of curiosity, where did you decide to move to?
I do agree with you that I see prices going up. There was a tremendous shake out of people that really couldn't afford their homes and overextended. But many of those people have been shaken out of San Diego.
I found prices here at the peak a few years ago far too expensive and I certainly wouldn't have paid them and waited on the sidelines until last year. But I think they will be headed back up there in the next decade or so. And rental rates should continue to increase as well in desirable areas of SD.
It's a mix between Vegas, and Colorado. Real estate in Vegas is still dirt cheap. Even in the nice part of Henderson, you can get brand new 4 bedroom homes well under $300,000. Rents are continuing to go up in Diego, it's like every year rents are raised throughout the county. There's no stopping either, I wish the city and county could do something to put a hold on rent increases because it's truly affecting the ability for people to live a quality life every time this happens. It's all the greed of the landlords, people will pay the rent increase because they have no other choice. They can try to find something else cheaper, but most likely those dirt cheap rentals are already taken, or are in ****ty parts of town with high crime and other abnormalities. It's not fair for people to have to go through this, and they shouldn't.
If wages here were on par with other bigger cities, then things wouldn't be so bad, but companies are putting a hold on raising many peoples wages, while everything else in price goes up from food, to gas and now housing, employee's pay stays stagnant which hits these people the hardest since they can't afford even the slightest increase in rent and or gas prices.
It literally takes 2 incomes to buy a home in SD, unless you make at least $80K a year on your own with hardly any debt, with no kids. Also it depends how much you've saved and put down on a home which can make all the difference in the world. But it takes years to save for many people, especially when other finance's pop up like emergencies, unexpected medical bills..etc. Other factors come into play when owning a home, utilities is the killer, cable, internet, water, lights, gas, all those things can add up quick, which doesn't include the mortgage itself. Sure you might pay $1900 a month mortgage for a janky house, but if you include all other expenses, tack on an extra $500 for utilities/TV/Internet as guesstimate. That brings everything up to $2400 a month. This also doesn't include landscaping maintenance that is if you don't do the lawn mowing or trimming yourself.
If you have credit card debt, or any kind of debt, it will strain you. Car insurance, health insurance, gasoline cost, I mean people have to factor in everything. But a majority of them don't, they think that they got a great deal on a house, but what about everything else that comes with owning a home?
See for me, if I bought a house in Vegas, I wouldn't have to worry about landscaping or mowing a lawn since it's all desert, plus they emphasis heavily on water conservation, unlike here in SD, residents, cities waste water at such abusive levels that it is sickening and shocking! We are pretty much in drought mode even if the authorities refuse to say we are, yet we continuously over water everything like we are immune , which is the truth because Californians like to think we are invincible to all problems this world faces, but the fact of the matter is, there will be a day sooner than later, when water will become the next thing to oil in terms of severe shortages. When that happens prices will undoubtedly go up, and people will then realize that they should have been conserving all this time. Water is a precious resource, we cannot live without it, yet everyone here treats it and over looks it like a dropped penny on the ground.
The newer the homes in Vegas, the better weather sealing they have, so they keep hot air out during the brutal summers, and warm air in during the cold winters. I understand higher electrical bills in Vegas, but from what I heard, it's not that much more than what we pay here. My aunt say's her electric bill for her house is under $100 a month, even with the A/C on full blast all day long 24/7. It's also much lower compared to when she lived in Los Angeles, and her bill is dirt cheap come fall, and winter.
It's a mix between Vegas, and Colorado. Real estate in Vegas is still dirt cheap. Even in the nice part of Henderson, you can get brand new 4 bedroom homes well under $300,000. Rents are continuing to go up in Diego, it's like every year rents are raised throughout the county. There's no stopping either, I wish the city and county could do something to put a hold on rent increases because it's truly affecting the ability for people to live a quality life every time this happens. It's all the greed of the landlords, people will pay the rent increase because they have no other choice. They can try to find something else cheaper, but most likely those dirt cheap rentals are already taken, or are in ****ty parts of town with high crime and other abnormalities. It's not fair for people to have to go through this, and they shouldn't.
If wages here were on par with other bigger cities, then things wouldn't be so bad, but companies are putting a hold on raising many peoples wages, while everything else in price goes up from food, to gas and now housing, employee's pay stays stagnant which hits these people the hardest since they can't afford even the slightest increase in rent and or gas prices.
It literally takes 2 incomes to buy a home in SD, unless you make at least $80K a year on your own with hardly any debt, with no kids. Also it depends how much you've saved and put down on a home which can make all the difference in the world. But it takes years to save for many people, especially when other finance's pop up like emergencies, unexpected medical bills..etc. Other factors come into play when owning a home, utilities is the killer, cable, internet, water, lights, gas, all those things can add up quick, which doesn't include the mortgage itself. Sure you might pay $1900 a month mortgage for a janky house, but if you include all other expenses, tack on an extra $500 for utilities/TV/Internet as guesstimate. That brings everything up to $2400 a month. This also doesn't include landscaping maintenance that is if you don't do the lawn mowing or trimming yourself.
If you have credit card debt, or any kind of debt, it will strain you. Car insurance, health insurance, gasoline cost, I mean people have to factor in everything. But a majority of them don't, they think that they got a great deal on a house, but what about everything else that comes with owning a home?
See for me, if I bought a house in Vegas, I wouldn't have to worry about landscaping or mowing a lawn since it's all desert, plus they emphasis heavily on water conservation, unlike here in SD, residents, cities waste water at such abusive levels that it is sickening and shocking! We are pretty much in drought mode even if the authorities refuse to say we are, yet we continuously over water everything like we are immune , which is the truth because Californians like to think we are invincible to all problems this world faces, but the fact of the matter is, there will be a day sooner than later, when water will become the next thing to oil in terms of severe shortages. When that happens prices will undoubtedly go up, and people will then realize that they should have been conserving all this time. Water is a precious resource, we cannot live without it, yet everyone here treats it and over looks it like a dropped penny on the ground.
The newer the homes in Vegas, the better weather sealing they have, so they keep hot air out during the brutal summers, and warm air in during the cold winters. I understand higher electrical bills in Vegas, but from what I heard, it's not that much more than what we pay here. My aunt say's her electric bill for her house is under $100 a month, even with the A/C on full blast all day long 24/7. It's also much lower compared to when she lived in Los Angeles, and her bill is dirt cheap come fall, and winter.
Colorado I really enjoy but Vegas I'd never have any desire to live. It's nice to visit for a weekend but I could never live there. But definitely I agree with you real estate is very affordable there now. But I do think it's cheap there for a reason.
Nothing can be done about the rental prices. It's just pure supply and demand which I think it should be. As a property owner, I'd want to charge as high a price as I can easily get. That's just normal on investment properties. I wouldn't necessarily call owners "greedy" for wanting to maximize their rate of return on their investment. That's just common sense. If the market is paying $X then I don't have any problem with them charging it if they can easily get it.
I own many rental properties (not in San Diego) and I actually have kept my rental prices the same since 2003. Although inflation has caused me to pay more on condo fees/HOA, utilities, etc. I've just kept the prices the same. My feeling is I'd rather keep them fully occupied with good tenants vs. having any low occupancy. But if I did raise prices I don't think it's because I'm greedy. Just common sense to get as much as the market will safely allow.
Definitely I agree with you that there are many dual income families to buy a nice home here. San Diego real estate is NOT cheap compared to many other cities in the USA. And I do agree that everything adds up. But really all of those things you mentioned (emergencies, medical bills, cable, internet, water, lights, gas) you will have in ANY city you move to.
However, really the major expense I find more expensive here in San Diego is the actual cost of the property and gas for the car and income taxes. But that's the major increase in the cost of living here. Several things are more affordable so far that I've experienced living here including the utility bills. Car insurance is less as well. Even the property tax rate is less than many places around the USA. In Texas in many cities it's 2%. However, with the higher price of real estate I do admit it can add up, especially if you live in a Mello Roos tax area.
I didn't think water bill would be too bad but this is my first summer in the house and I was actually surprised by my last water bill. Our last bill which covered from 6-14-12 to 8-14-12 was $405. But the strange thing is we were not home from June 14 to August 8. We came back from vacation on August 8 and it was still $405 without even using the water except for one week. So I just assume our gardner has increased the sprinklers due to the heat. I can't imagine what it will be the next period as we shower/bathe quite a bit.
Obviously the cost of a house will be most people's major expense each month. So that is a big expense. But most of those things you listed on your list you will have in any city you go to. I'm not sure you will spend that little on electricity in Las Vegas as you are estimating. But I can understand your feelings on what you wrote about high cost of real estate here. I personally think it's worth it but I understand those that think it isn't.
The biggest hurdle here seems to be cost of housing here and the lower wages. If you can get over those hurdles...San Diego is pretty fantastic.. But I agree they are big hurdles to jump.
Thanks. I stand corrected, good fact check! Allow me to clarify....Over 300k for 3/2 on 1500 sq ft. That is still over $200 per sq ft. And the point of it all is that the ones that are showing well are going over list.
The 4/2 and 5/2s near 2k ft are over 350k.
As sdlife and early retirement point out, for middles class wages here its interesting to see that kind push up in a place like LG. Doesn't make sense to me whether I own here or not. But people are paying it so there is the proof.
Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 08-23-2012 at 09:43 AM..
I am not living in SD (yet), but I think what you are seeing are homes that were previously foreclosed and investors bought them, went in and made minor fixes (new carpet, paint, etc.) Then turned around and flip for a profit. Many of these homes get sold at auction. This is what is happening a lot in NorCal. These foreclosed/auctioned homes get re-listed as traditional sales. The investor can buy these homes on the cheap, invest under $10k and then re-market for a lot more.
I will be moving to SD next year and my husband will join me in 2014. We own a home now and we will either sell it or rent it out. We do intend to purchase a home in SD as soon as we can once he joins me. I will be there for 6-12 months so I figure that will give me enough time to scope out the areas. We will be using a VA loan again, but I am a little worried that with multiple offers it may be tough to find an owner willing to sell to someone with a VA loan. It just has to be the right seller situation for us. We lucked out on our home now. The owner was considering several offers but decided to sell to us since my husband is in the military. Most realtors would advise their clients to not accept VA buyers.
I realize we'll have to make a lot of sacrifices for this move and since my husband will be retired military, he'll also need to find a job in SD (I'm being transferred). Over 20 years in the military as a cop, I'm sure he'll find something!! Or maybe he'll just take a permanent vacation on the beaches of SD!
I am not living in SD (yet), but I think what you are seeing are homes that were previously foreclosed and investors bought them, went in and made minor fixes (new carpet, paint, etc.) Then turned around and flip for a profit. Many of these homes get sold at auction. This is what is happening a lot in NorCal. These foreclosed/auctioned homes get re-listed as traditional sales. The investor can buy these homes on the cheap, invest under $10k and then re-market for a lot more.
I will be moving to SD next year and my husband will join me in 2014. We own a home now and we will either sell it or rent it out. We do intend to purchase a home in SD as soon as we can once he joins me. I will be there for 6-12 months so I figure that will give me enough time to scope out the areas. We will be using a VA loan again, but I am a little worried that with multiple offers it may be tough to find an owner willing to sell to someone with a VA loan. It just has to be the right seller situation for us. We lucked out on our home now. The owner was considering several offers but decided to sell to us since my husband is in the military. Most realtors would advise their clients to not accept VA buyers.
I realize we'll have to make a lot of sacrifices for this move and since my husband will be retired military, he'll also need to find a job in SD (I'm being transferred). Over 20 years in the military as a cop, I'm sure he'll find something!! Or maybe he'll just take a permanent vacation on the beaches of SD!
I have a friend of a friend that bought with a VA loan last year, so they are selling in some fashion. A colleague of mine right now, is trying to buy with an FHA and getting blown away by the multiple offer situation you are talking about.
Its awful, he is not having fun and really cant afford anymore than where he is looking.
This kind of reflects what I was trying to portray in my other post with the push up prices. There are several instances in my tiny city of these flipped houses being listed at ~300k and gettting into bidding wars to push it over a couple of percentage points.
The problem with that is that now its a comp and snowballs from there. Yes I get it Econ 101, but the rate of change due to lack of inventory is alarming.
It would seem counterintuitive for me to seem negative on prices going up as a local homeowner. But what concerns me is how many cycles this will last before something like an interest rate hike on Treasuries affects monthly affordability.
I guess because I know people that are having a hard time getting in, that work hard and dont over extended themselves are slowly starting to fall in the back of the line.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Plus it's urban/suburban in a way.
