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Just curious what the current SDGE program was for the 2 meters. I'm strongly considering the Toyota RAV4 EV or possibly the Volt and will end up having a Level 2 charger installed in my garage. I had taken a look at their program a long while ago and saw they would have tiered rates to allow for cheaper electricity during overnight charging, but the lowered overnight rates were not substantially lower than the baseline or 1st tier rates, while you now have to pay .27 per kilowatt hour during peak periods, which is substantially higher than the regular rates. What was your 2nd meter install cost?
Hi Marina,
I'm happy to share this information as I had a VERY difficult time finding anything online. Even amongst the local San Diego Tesla group, I don't think anyone has done it. There is a new program with SDGE where you can get a second dedicated TOU (time of use) meter installed solely for your EV charger in your garage.
You have to evaluate your own situation but I did some calculations and in my situation it made sense to get the 2nd dedicated meter. SDGE actually provides the meter "free" but you have to go through the licensing process with the City and pay for an electrician to install it. It can range from $1,500 to $2,000+ depending on where you live and how extensive amount of work the electrician needs to do. Mine will end up around $1,600 or so.
It's not a quick process. I started several weeks ago. You have to first start by filling out that form on SDGE's website. Then fax it in and then it takes a few weeks for them to get back to you. They send someone out to inspect your property and look at the electricity in the area. Then they send you an approval form with schematics how your electrician needs to install it.
Then after your electrician installs it, you have to call the City Inspector's office to inspect it and clear it. They then call SDGE to give the all clear and then SDGE comes out and actually installs the 2nd dedicated meter.
You will then get your normal electricity bill and get a 2nd bill solely for the EV charger meter. Super off peak rates are only 0.14 cents per kilowatt hour vs. the MUCH higher rates we'd be paying as we go up to 3rd and even 4th tier on our utility bills. So any usage for the EV would have been most likely at the 4th tier rates.
With the Tesla they have a set up where you can set the car to charge at any time you want so I'll start it after midnight. My charger will charge about 62 miles an hour (Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors ) as I opted for the dual chargers on the car.
Where it makes sense seems to be when you know you will stay in your property a long time and you know you will keep your EV a while and also possibly get a 2nd EV in the future. For me, I know we will stay in the house so it seems to definitely make sense.
I almost gave up on the process as it was dragging out so long but it's a new program so not many people at SDGE seem to know what's going on but PM me if you're interested Marina and I'll send you the details for the people I'm dealing with.
As you mentioned, just converting the entire house to the TOU rates didn't end up working for me as the rates were so high. The only way that made sense seemed to be going the 2nd meter route.
I'm the guinea pig for the group so I'll post back how it goes. My electrician installed my NEMA 14-50 connection yesterday with my rapid charger but he was missing a part to complete the installation for what SDGE needs but he said it should be here in a few days and he will finish.
Then I'll need to call the City to come out and inspect it and then SDGE will install it.
That's the problem. If they had a dealer and showroom where I can just walk in and ask for a test drive, then I would totally do that. But the way they have it, I have to make an appointment and what not, I feel bad for taking so much of their time for a car I have no plan in buying. As I said, I'm pretty sure the Model S out performs most cars in its class at this moment in time. That IMHO is its strong point. Although I'm not sure how it stacks up with the newer E63/CTS-V that's coming out. But I don't buy a car just for its performance, especially at that price. If performance was the only factor, I would buy a CTS-V and get this: 378 CID LSA Supercharged Engine Package - 700+ HP | Lingenfelter Performance Engineering or this one HPE700 Upgrade Package | 2009 - 2013 Cadillac CTS-V | Hennessey Performance. Hennessey also have a 800HP and 1000HP kit as well. It would be cheaper than a Model S and I'm pretty sure it'll be faster too. The 700HP Hennessey kit does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds and 1/4 miles in 11.1 seconds. The Model S does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds and 1/4 mile in low 12s. When I buy a car, especially at that price, interior quality and technology is just as important. After all, 95% of the time, I'm just cruising on the freeway, so speed doesn't matter as much. Which is where I see the Model S extremely lacking for me. It exceeds my expectation in performance based on everything I've read. I'm not doubting it in that department. However, it falls very short in other areas that I expect in my next car. Not to mention the range problem. I do a 350 miles road trip at least 4 times a year. I need my next car to be able to do that easily. Model S can't serve that need, especially if you drive at 80MPH up the grape vine. I'm sure if I did that, my range will be less than 200 miles. If I want a car that for local driving and cannot do road trip, I probably would lean toward a GT-R. It does 0-60 in high 2 seconds and 1/4 miles in low 11 sec stock. It also handles like a dream. I'd like to see what the Model S can do around the Nürburgring.
I'm actually keeping my eyes out for the 2014 E63 AMG as we speak. It does 0-60 in 3.6 vs the Model S in 4.2. But I'm sure the instant torque for the Model S must be very nice. Also, exhaust note is very important to me as well, not just pure speed. Exhaust note was what sold me on my current car over a BMW at the time. I love those V-8 sound.
BTW, I think the statement about the acceleration on par w/ a Ferrari is a little bit of a hyperbole. Also, acceleration at what speed? I would like to see a Model S start accelerating at 120MPH, where a Ferrari starts to really open up.
Most cars that start to get into these price ranges aren't just out on some lot where you can take a test drive. I can't just walk into some Ferrari dealership and tell them lets take a spin. Especially if I have no plans on buying one.
You can go to the UTC branch or the one in Fashion Island(NB) and check out the car, listen to their stories, and so on. There are a couple of showrooms up in Mountainview (at least a couple years back) where you would be able to test drive if you convinced them. But again, if you have no plans on buying the car, why would they want you to go take a $60K+ car for a spin? Imagine if thousands of people just wanted to go have fun. Doesn't make much sense.
Most cars that start to get into these price ranges aren't just out on some lot where you can take a test drive. I can't just walk into some Ferrari dealership and tell them lets take a spin. Especially if I have no plans on buying one.
You can go to the UTC branch or the one in Fashion Island(NB) and check out the car, listen to their stories, and so on. There are a couple of showrooms up in Mountainview (at least a couple years back) where you would be able to test drive if you convinced them. But again, if you have no plans on buying the car, why would they want you to go take a $60K+ car for a spin? Imagine if thousands of people just wanted to go have fun. Doesn't make much sense.
Uh, Model S is not a Ferrari. I can go and test drive a $50k-$100k 5-series/E-class very easily. That's the price of a Model S. I can easily go into a Porsche dealership and ask for a test drive as well. They're not going to make me put down a down payment just to test drive.
I've been to UTC and sat in the Model S. I've done my research about the Model S. I've read about it's advantages and disadvantages for me. The interior is crap for the price IMHO. The safety feature is extremely lacking for the price. Those are the things I can see and touch at the UTC show room. But I've read great things about its performance. That's something that ER told me to try. Maybe if it's as great as the hype, then maybe I can overlook its down side and put it on my list of cars I'm considering, which is M5/M3/E63/C63.
Why would they want to let me test drive? The same reason why BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/etc let me test drive. I test drove the car I bought many times. The first few times, I had no intention of buying. When I actually bought, I came to the dealer just wanting to test drive. But was offered a good deal and decided to pull the trigger. Bare in mind I did not plan to buy the car that day. So, yeah, there's definitely a reason to let people test drive, even if they had no plan to buy the car. One of those time I came in for a test drive, the guy just took a copy of my license, gave me the keys and told me to come back in 15 minutes all by myself. That's the kind of service I expect from a luxury car company.
These cars are not $150k+ exotic cars that have a very limited supply. Two totally different class of cars and buyers. Test driving is party of the cost of doing business.
Trust me doc. Go drive it. It's not the same thing sitting in the car in the showroom floor. I did that literally dozens and dozens of times and I was planning on NOT being an early adopter and just waiting until next year. I do agree with you that the interior isn't that impressive for a $100,000+ car. However, ALL that changed once I drove it. I think I mentioned this but I put a deposit a few hours after test driving it.
I really don't think you can compare this to some of the other cars out there. It's just totally different. The technology, the drive, the performance and feel. I just love love love new technology and this car is the ultimate for me. Again, I'm so not a "car guy". (Or at least I wasn't before I bought this car). Ha, ha.
There are a LOT of guys that ARE "car guys" that know many different types of cars and many of them have exotic cars. I also know a few guys that have several exotic cars in their garage and they have all mostly said they are driving their Model S now since they got it. And their Porshes, Ferraris, Aston's, etc. are just sitting in the garage. That speaks volumes to me.
I do agree that NO ONE should be buying a car without test driving it first. I've read about many that have bought the Model S without test driving it which seems crazy to me. Clearly there are some things with the business model I'm not as thrilled with as before. I think they will have to work out several kinks with their model and I'm sure they will before the 3rd generation comes out in a few years.
I'm counting down the days now and can't wait! I've never been excited or giddy to get a car before in my life.
Location: San Diego via Orange County via Toronto via Rome Italy
390 posts, read 795,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyretirement
Hi Marina,
I'm happy to share this information as I had a VERY difficult time finding anything online. Even amongst the local San Diego Tesla group, I don't think anyone has done it. There is a new program with SDGE where you can get a second dedicated TOU (time of use) meter installed solely for your EV charger in your garage.
You have to evaluate your own situation but I did some calculations and in my situation it made sense to get the 2nd dedicated meter. SDGE actually provides the meter "free" but you have to go through the licensing process with the City and pay for an electrician to install it. It can range from $1,500 to $2,000+ depending on where you live and how extensive amount of work the electrician needs to do. Mine will end up around $1,600 or so.
It's not a quick process. I started several weeks ago. You have to first start by filling out that form on SDGE's website. Then fax it in and then it takes a few weeks for them to get back to you. They send someone out to inspect your property and look at the electricity in the area. Then they send you an approval form with schematics how your electrician needs to install it.
Then after your electrician installs it, you have to call the City Inspector's office to inspect it and clear it. They then call SDGE to give the all clear and then SDGE comes out and actually installs the 2nd dedicated meter.
You will then get your normal electricity bill and get a 2nd bill solely for the EV charger meter. Super off peak rates are only 0.14 cents per kilowatt hour vs. the MUCH higher rates we'd be paying as we go up to 3rd and even 4th tier on our utility bills. So any usage for the EV would have been most likely at the 4th tier rates.
With the Tesla they have a set up where you can set the car to charge at any time you want so I'll start it after midnight. My charger will charge about 62 miles an hour (Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors ) as I opted for the dual chargers on the car.
Where it makes sense seems to be when you know you will stay in your property a long time and you know you will keep your EV a while and also possibly get a 2nd EV in the future. For me, I know we will stay in the house so it seems to definitely make sense.
I almost gave up on the process as it was dragging out so long but it's a new program so not many people at SDGE seem to know what's going on but PM me if you're interested Marina and I'll send you the details for the people I'm dealing with.
As you mentioned, just converting the entire house to the TOU rates didn't end up working for me as the rates were so high. The only way that made sense seemed to be going the 2nd meter route.
I'm the guinea pig for the group so I'll post back how it goes. My electrician installed my NEMA 14-50 connection yesterday with my rapid charger but he was missing a part to complete the installation for what SDGE needs but he said it should be here in a few days and he will finish.
Then I'll need to call the City to come out and inspect it and then SDGE will install it.
Reading this reminded me of my own experience test-driving BMW's electric Mini . . .as the "test pilots" we were invited to a meet-and-greet with the BMW engineers who worked on it. The biggest take-away line I got from that was "We are BMW. We know a lot about designing and building CARS. We know nothing about building gas stations."
This may be one reason (among many) why the traditional car companies have been having such a hard time with EVs - as a manufacturer (and driver!) you have to think far beyond the car to the whole support system.
Maybe it's a good thing that EVs are only rolling out slowly . . . imagine the gyrations SDG&E and the City inspectors would have to go through if every other house in a neighborhood had an EV and charging station. Particularly older neighborhoods with low-amp wiring and panels . . . talk about a steep learning curve . . .
Reading this reminded me of my own experience test-driving BMW's electric Mini . . .as the "test pilots" we were invited to a meet-and-greet with the BMW engineers who worked on it. The biggest take-away line I got from that was "We are BMW. We know a lot about designing and building CARS. We know nothing about building gas stations."
This may be one reason (among many) why the traditional car companies have been having such a hard time with EVs - as a manufacturer (and driver!) you have to think far beyond the car to the whole support system.
Maybe it's a good thing that EVs are only rolling out slowly . . . imagine the gyrations SDG&E and the City inspectors would have to go through if every other house in a neighborhood had an EV and charging station. Particularly older neighborhoods with low-amp wiring and panels . . . talk about a steep learning curve . . .
So true sschibuola! Yes, actually I think it's good that the 3rd generations of Teslas won't be around probably until 2016 or so.
It was VERY frustrating dealing with this SDGE dedicated 2nd meter thingy. For one thing, almost no electricians even got back to me about it. Turns out that none really know the process and procedures and it takes time to find out, tons of phone calls, and the 'left hand' at SDGE doesn't seem to know what the 'right hand' is doing sometimes.
Finally I did get a GREAT employee that knows what she is doing and she was really responsive. Her name is Nancy A. and is the Service Planner there. Anyone can feel free to PM me if you need her contact information. I'm not sure she wants it posted online. But she was great! She finally paved the way to get the electrician to come out and do his part of the installation.
I also got fortunate in finding an electrician that was willing to help me through the process. I don't think many people have done this yet with the dedicated 2nd TOU meter so there wasn't anything online so I'm happy to share my experiences in this regard.
I'd also recommend anyone on the fence about doing this, probably do it sooner rather than later. Something tells me later SDGE and the others will probably figure out they don't need to provide these meters free and they themselves charge something to provide the meter. Right now they provide them free and you only pay the electrician.
Had the electrician not had problems getting the housing for the meter he would have had it done yesterday but he said it will come in and once it's done, I'll post his contact information for him. I have a feeling he will be a VERY busy guy because all the other electricians I contacted either never got back or had no interest in doing these installations.
Absolutely the system isn't ready to begin these on a wide-scale level yet. As well, I'm sure it will be difficult traveling later on as more and more people get EV's hotel chargers will all be busy. As well the Tesla superchargers already I'm reading about some people having to wait in line at them.
Maybe Tesla will think outside of the box eventually and they can contract to put these Superchargers at big box stores like Target, Walmart, etc. which will allow them to have space but also draw people to the stores.
There is a lot of infrastructure that still needs to be worked out before EV becomes mainstream so it's good as you mentioned that it will be slower and give them time to ramp up.
I'm not a "road trip" type of guy but I'm already planning some road trips with my friend that is a car nut. I'm also planning to go with the family on some road trips and document it so it will be fun and interesting.
Last edited by earlyretirement; 08-21-2013 at 03:21 PM..
Trust me doc. Go drive it. It's not the same thing sitting in the car in the showroom floor. I did that literally dozens and dozens of times and I was planning on NOT being an early adopter and just waiting until next year. I do agree with you that the interior isn't that impressive for a $100,000+ car. However, ALL that changed once I drove it. I think I mentioned this but I put a deposit a few hours after test driving it.
I really don't think you can compare this to some of the other cars out there. It's just totally different. The technology, the drive, the performance and feel. I just love love love new technology and this car is the ultimate for me. Again, I'm so not a "car guy". (Or at least I wasn't before I bought this car). Ha, ha.
There are a LOT of guys that ARE "car guys" that know many different types of cars and many of them have exotic cars. I also know a few guys that have several exotic cars in their garage and they have all mostly said they are driving their Model S now since they got it. And their Porshes, Ferraris, Aston's, etc. are just sitting in the garage. That speaks volumes to me.
I do agree that NO ONE should be buying a car without test driving it first. I've read about many that have bought the Model S without test driving it which seems crazy to me. Clearly there are some things with the business model I'm not as thrilled with as before. I think they will have to work out several kinks with their model and I'm sure they will before the 3rd generation comes out in a few years.
I'm counting down the days now and can't wait! I've never been excited or giddy to get a car before in my life.
I believe you about its performance. I actually have VERY HIGH expectation for its performance. So, that's not even a question. However, I need my next car to be able to do a 350 miles road trip with ease (A/C up and down mountain going 80MPH). I think if I do that w/ the Model S right now, I probably can only get around 200 miles. So, maybe next generation will solve that problem. Also, maybe next Model S will have better interior since the cost to make the car will be much cheaper (since technology will be more mature) and they can spend more $ on the interior.
However, maybe I'll test drive the Model S just to experience the drive and see if it lives up to the hype and I can at least have a baseline for expectation. Then I'll see where it stand against the other cars on my list. I'm a "car guy" and see a car as having 2 purpose, street cruising (road trip and mountain road) and track day fun. I do intend to take my next car to the track. With that said, I don't see the Model S so special where it can't be compared to other cars. I view them all as a tool to serve the two points above. How well the car serve those two points will determine what I'll pick. Maybe it blows away the competition enough in performance where I would sacrifice the road trip factor (taking my wife's car for road trip instead) and put the Model S on the list.
As to those car guys, do they take their exotics to the track? I like to know what type of "car guy" you're referring to. Some car guys just buy exotic because they're exotic and they can afford it. Then there are car guys who are in it for pure performance. Then there are car guys who like bang for your bucks performance. With regards to performance, there are some car guys who are totally into 0-60 and 1/4 miles and nothing more. Then there are car guys who take their car to the track that actually have left and right turns. I'm the type of car guy who are into bang for your bucks performance and take my car to the track. But I also want to enjoy the ride on the same car home. I don't want a track queen either.
Oh NO doc. I won't be taking the car to any race tracks. Most of my friends that have some exotic cars don't take their cars to a race track either although a few of my die hard "car guy" fans do go to race tracks to race. But not my thing.
I definitely will still keep an ICE car for longer trips. We don't go on too many road trips now but I have made the drive to Lake Tahoe before with the family and I probably wouldn't dream about making a trip like that in the Model S right now. Yes, from what you're saying it sounds like this Generation Model S probably isn't for you.
While I agree with you that for a $100k car the interior is nothing to write home about, it's nice enough for me and my tastes. This is by far the most expensive car I've purchased. I'm the type that could afford a more exotic car but I've never felt the need to as I used to think of cars kind of a waste of money. LOL.
I agree with you that some people like exotic cars just because they can afford them and like to collect them. Some like to race them for performance. I definitely think there will be flaws to work out with the car. I read many many blogs online and the Tesla posts every single day and needless to say there are a lot of Tesla Fanbois that claim the company can do no wrong. I'm more objective and will say that there will probably be many, many issues to work out while the technology is so new. I'm ok with that as long as the company always makes things right when there are problems.
Plus, I probably would have NOT bought the car if there wasn't a service center here locally in San Diego. I've read several posts by guys that live in the middle of nowhere that have had problems and it sounds like a hassle getting their car serviced but the guys that live near a service center seem to always get things resolved easily.
I think the car will be a dream here in a town like San Diego with near perfect weather for someone like me that rarely takes road trips, doesn't need to go to race tracks and I probably average about 50 miles a day or so. With many more miles on the weekends exploring out and about. But I think once I get the car I'll drive many more miles per day and probably make up excuses to go run errands. Ha, ha.
But I agree with you doc that it's not at a level for some people where it can totally replace their ICE vehicle completely. Although I don't plan to drive my Q7 much after I get the Model S. :P
I don't think anyone can dispute how truly safe the car is. I think it more or less came down to the NHTSA not wanting companies to really trying to go beyond the 5 star rating and car makers potentially trying to argue whose 5 star rating is really better.
I do agree Tesla can go a bit far with their marketing but in this case I have no doubts on how safe the car is. The results are really amazing.
Personally when the raw data is looked at, I'd rather have my kids in a Model S in an accident vs. many other cars. Heck, the data was impressive even compared to some SUV's and minivans.
Last edited by earlyretirement; 08-22-2013 at 01:42 PM..
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