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I just posted looking for advice on buying our first home (we are 1 year new to SD) and a couple kind members suggested South Park/Burlingame/Golden Hill. Had not known of them, and we drove there this weekend and I was in love! We have spent many years living in Berkeley and a couple just outside Portland so this felt like the perfect neighborhood fit for us. The architecture, eclectic style/culture, walk-ability...
However, the market is still tight with inventory and I see that the prices have gone up to the point where it may be just out of our price range. I am going to stalk the listings like mad, but meanwhile can anyone suggest a close second to this community in case we just can't swing it? What about working our way "outward" such as Sherman Heights or Grant Hill? Where can we look without losing that perfect vibe that I feel like it took a year to find?
We do have 2 small children but we aren't going by school districts (thinking charter or home school), though some sense of safety is important.
My knowledge of Sherman Heights and Grant Hill is not really based on first hand experience. By reputation it's still considered sketchy. I know I have read how a few braver souls have started the old rehab the Victorian thing, but I'm not sure if that area has really turned the corner. Perhaps others have better knowledge.
Have you considered the north side of Normal Heights? There's still a lot of character in Normal Heights, plus Adams Avenue is walkably close. Normal Heights used to be a bit iffy because of what the Huffman apartment buildings did to the area. However, between 1990 when I lived there and now, the commercial strip has really taken on a life of its own. On the commercial, food & spirits perspective, I think Normal Heights is the next big thing now that North Park has been officially declared the next big thing. Normal Heights may be so much of a happening place you may not find the help you want on the price front, but take a look.
Other neighborhoods you would like: University Heights, Kensington, North Park - well if you can't swing Golden Hill, South Park, you can't swing these locations.
Agree with kettlepot as usual. Especially if you cant afford Golden Hill, then there really isnt anywhere to go after that.
The Greater Golden Hill area (92102) includes South Park, Sherman Heights, Grant Hill etc. Even several years ago when we were looking to buy, it was the 'next' neighborhood. We loved if for all the same reasons you did. Really cute Victorians and Craftsmen homes similar to houses twice the price in North/South Park etc. When you get past the ga ga phase of finding that jewel, it really gets tricky.
The more affordable areas (typically south of the 94) have been 'gentrifying' for a couple of decades and never really gained traction like some of the other neighborhoods to the north of downtown or around the Park.
Personal experience: We were in contract for two different properties in Sherman and Grant Hill and inspections were awful due to the condition of these homes and went 'beyond' elbow grease to get it up to speed (required professionals.)
But as wiley eyed first time homeowners that watched too much HGTV, we truly didnt understand the realities of the rehab time and overall costs until we really started talking to contractors (good and reptuable ones that were cheap during the housing downturn)
After all calculations and meeting with tons of contractors (within the 17 day window) those houses were simply to expensive to rehab for the price of the home. Well over 50k minimum ust for getting the place up to speed with basics and repairs! We even had them break down options and costs if we did a low end>higher end rehab.
We eventually came to our senses.
And trust me I am diligent when it comes to being that guy that wants to find a great deal or hidden gem. When the realities set in and we got some prodding from our agent/friend (bless her) and came to our senses that this was going to be our first house, we knew when to change gears. It was out of our league.
Those houses will always be there and some of them have been there for 100 years already.
We have seen investors go in there and get burned with some gorgeous homes sitting on the market for well over 5-6 months and having to drop down big time in price to sell.
I am not trying to discourage you by any means and not saying you wont find something great there. But for us, as a couple with NO kids, it was brutal only a few years ago when there was some inventory. Just wanted to share our story as we REALLY liked the houses there too
There was a really beauty, a local home builder rehabbed which you would have probably loved, but it sold for 500k.
That house is an island as the adjacent properties are in dismal condition for the next couple streets around it. The good thing is, if you are ok being the nicest house in a sketchy neighborhood, then you might be able to find a great deal. Painted Lady | Tom Tarrant
Good luck! I hope you find something.
Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 07-17-2013 at 09:07 AM..
Thanks Kettlepot, yes we drove those areas too and they were great, and I agree about higher prices, otherwise we would buy there happily. Shmoov_groovzsd your response was very informative, and I think we must have a lot in common! My husband is a mechanical engineer (P.E) so he is the one that thinks beyond the cuteness and is very pragmatic when it comes to the bones of a house. I will share your response with him, you can't beat that kind of first hand experience and that it was only a couple of years ago too. We still have not ruled out Lemon Grove by the way I don't mind dreaming OR staying in check! LOL!
Thanks Kettlepot, yes we drove those areas too and they were great, and I agree about higher prices, otherwise we would buy there happily. Shmoov_groovzsd your response was very informative, and I think we must have a lot in common! My husband is a mechanical engineer (P.E) so he is the one that thinks beyond the cuteness and is very pragmatic when it comes to the bones of a house. I will share your response with him, you can't beat that kind of first hand experience and that it was only a couple of years ago too. We still have not ruled out Lemon Grove by the way I don't mind dreaming OR staying in check! LOL!
I am really glad to share our experiences and pass them on. If anything, just some food for thought. Actually my first post ever on C-D was towards the end of our house hunt in that area, where we were even looking in Mt Hope (also in 92102.) The forums became so helpful for us, that I have found myself contributing back years later.
LG just happens to be the place we found a great house. But really, it could have been anywhere, because it was not even on our list as an 'area' to consider until we hit road block after road block of 'dream' makeover houses in SD zip codes like where you were looking.
This particular house just happened to hit all the right points for us when the dust settled after our wannabe House Hunters extravaganza lol
Yes I agree it does sound like we have a lot in common and it does sound like us (especially the house bones lol)
Trust me, it is a process and you just have to go through it as diligently as possible but also not getting too caught up in the 'vision' with a fixer. It all starts adding up and its VERY easy to get caught up in inching up past your budget.
A part from doing your own due diligence, having an agent that is experienced that can actually provide legit info on house quality or history of neighborhoods and intel is worth its weight in gold.
I think you are going to have to accept the reality that you may be priced out of the 'portland-esque' parts of San Diego. Sherman Heights and Grant Hill are really not substitutes and could take 20+ years to gentrify or it could never happen. 15 years ago "South Park" was once just part of the big swath of run down neighborhoods between El Cajon Boulevard and the 94, but the affordability ship is long gone and there are still a lot of marginal homes in that area selling for 500k+. It's happening in Normal Heights now as well.
Have you looked at the neighborhoods immediately around downtown La Mesa? There are some smaller cottages which are walkable to the village and due to their small size and lack of hipsters, they are pretty inexpensive.
The challenge with all of these areas is there is just not much of it and the existing the housing stock is limited and much of it needs lots of repair. As strange as it may sound, if you really love Craftsman-type neighborhoods, you should look at places like St Louis, Kansas City, Des Moines, Minneapolis, etc. because that is where the big prairie-style building booms occurred in the early 20th century. San Diego's development didn't really happen until the postwar boom, so the number of homes built in the 00's-30's is rather small.
I think you are going to have to accept the reality that you may be priced out of the 'portland-esque' parts of San Diego. Sherman Heights and Grant Hill are really not substitutes and could take 20+ years to gentrify or it could never happen. 15 years ago "South Park" was once just part of the big swath of run down neighborhoods between El Cajon Boulevard and the 94, but the affordability ship is long gone and there are still a lot of marginal homes in that area selling for 500k+. It's happening in Normal Heights now as well.
Have you looked at the neighborhoods immediately around downtown La Mesa? There are some smaller cottages which are walkable to the village and due to their small size and lack of hipsters, they are pretty inexpensive.
The challenge with all of these areas is there is just not much of it and the existing the housing stock is limited and much of it needs lots of repair. As strange as it may sound, if you really love Craftsman-type neighborhoods, you should look at places like St Louis, Kansas City, Des Moines, Minneapolis, etc. because that is where the big prairie-style building booms occurred in the early 20th century. San Diego's development didn't really happen until the postwar boom, so the number of homes built in the 00's-30's is rather small.
Yup, Sass is spot on here as always.
For just a tad more character in the houses, the immediate areas around Downtown La Mesa Village are the real deal, but I think even 400k there might be a stretch.
Houses like this for example surrounds the Village. Dont get too excited about the price though as it looks like a short sale and the comps in that area are iffy. http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-13002220..._Mesa_CA_91941
But definitely drive around there for those types of homes. I do think however, being on the 8 in La Mesa may take longer than 30 mins to UTC during rush hour to/from.
The 94 west>805N might be a slightly quicker option.
Thanks Sassberto! I will look around that part of La Mesa, I have only driven just past it on the way to visit a friend who lives in Spring Valley. I see what you're saying, and especially with the repair factor, not to mention the fixers we've been seeing from even more recent years...it may well be that we end up in a "boring" house....which is a 1st world problem, and in the end I will not complain because there are so many other great things to enjoy outside of the home in San Diego. I always shoot for the best and then whatever it pans out to be I like the educators adage, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit" LOL!
In case anyone stumbles upon this, I found a few cool resources while researching the local housing market:
San Diego Free Press has some great articles about various neighborhoods, including history, development, and resident interviews. Very cool insights! San Diego Free Press
Calculated Risk economics and finance (I'm not that savvy and even I can follow this blog) Calculated Risk
My favorite wise and witty frugal/early retirement blog (we are nowhere near his dedication) but his ideas helped us buy a car and change to Republic Wireless cell phone plan Mr. Money Mustache | Early Retirement through Badassity
Not disagreeing with any of the typically knowledgeable responses from kettlepot, shmoov or Sassberto but I will say that the perceived sketchiness of Sherman Heights and neighboring Grant Hill are not borne out at all by actual crime rate statistics. A quick view (look at the property crime total and crime index total) will show that Sherman Heights actually has a pretty low crime rate- (very low property crimes, a little higher violent crimes). We walk through that area all the time on our way to the ball park downtown and have never experienced anything but an enjoyable walk in a funky and architecturally interesting neighborhood.
Having said that I agree that for any number of reasons that southern area of Greater Golden Hill lags tremendously behind the gentrification just north of the 94. I've lived here for 17 years and have watched South Park completely transform while Sherman Heights it seems you can count on one hand the substantially improved properties. As far as investing in a home there I think it still is a crap shoot, but the overall location adjacent Golden Hill/South Park as well as downtown will be a hard one to beat. Talk of creating a "lid" park over the 94, ala Teralta Park between Orange Ave. and Polk over the 15, would, I think, guarantee the transformation there, but as anyone knows who has lived here a while, talk is cheap and no guarantee it will ever happen.
Less convenient, but just across 15, Fairmont Park, Hollywood/Azalea Park is a nice little area that you should also look at. We have good friends who also having been priced out of South Park after renting here chose that area and really like it there. I agree that La Mesa is also an area that will give you that nice village vibe that you are looking for.
Although it may do nothing but frustrate you even further of how cool South Park is, you absolutely should come to the Summer of Love Walkabout this Saturday here. A real fun, family friendly neighborhood experience, live music, great food and drinks and crowds of folks on the streets here- feels a little like you are in Europe or something. SOUTH PARK San Diego
Have you looked at the neighborhoods immediately around downtown La Mesa? There are some smaller cottages which are walkable to the village and due to their small size and lack of hipsters, they are pretty inexpensive.
Nope!
That area of La Mesa has already been Pimped out
After the OTL on Saturday i rode around with a friend of mine from NYC and his agent.
Everything in his 450k range around that part of La Mesa were Dumps.
Some were fixers but people were asking way too much money for them.
TangerineTea
Please check out the Zip Codes 92105 and 92115
You're going to get more bang for your buck in these areas.Some areas along the hillside have some nice pockets of older homes
The reason why this area gets a bad deal is because of the streets along Streamveiw and 54th st.
If you have any question about what streets are good or bad just post in this thread or PM Me
My Cousin,Who is SDPD lives the next block over from this place in His Child hood home.His parents(my aunt and uncle) bought their place in 1952 for $7,800
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