Unfortunately our city is too expensive (San Diego: 2015, condos, mortgages)

[metoque]

Originally Posted by Pedro2000

Places like Kent or Everett aren't ghetto. They just aren't Bellevue or Redmond or Kirkland. Are there bad parts of Kent and Renton and Tukwila and so on? Yes, but places like Kent have some pretty damn good schools if you go by ratings and rankings. I wouldn't say Spring Valley is known for great schools at all. I knew a lot of people who lived in places like Kent. It was boring, there was nothing to do and there were not so nice areas, but in general, it' s not ghetto. It's just your normal middle class neighborhood.
And living in Kent and working in Redmond or Bellevue, WA where a lot of companies are is only a 30-45 minute commute. Not terrible and it would suck, but I lived in Bellevue and worked down in Auburn. I also lived in Seattle and worked in Bellevue and it could take 90 minutes depending on the time of day I left.


That is the biggest difference. A lot of people would live in Kent or Tukwila or Auburn or Bellevue. It's not million dollar homes like in Bellevue, but it's affordable housing with some decent schools. Whereas how many people really want to live in Spring Valley?

The commute from Kent or Everett into the city is horrible...I've done it many times to and from both locations myself. I didn't say they were totally ghetto...I said they were "more" ghetto than the other locations like Issaquah.

I would agree that Seattle area's non-prime areas are cheaper than equally non-prime areas in San Diego area...but not significantly. There's a clear reason why they're cheaper...the premium for corporate salaries is not evident there like they are in Bellevue or Issaquah, so the truer value of the area shines through for the crappy weather and boring lifestyle you have to deal with. You pick a non-prime area in SD, you still get awesome weather and the beach so it makes sense there's a premium to be had there. Make no mistake though...commuting from Everett or Kent is a nightmare.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Pedro2000

I think most people are oblivious to what happens around them and then when something bad happens they are "shocked." Many times people are ignorant or just dumb or too stuck in their own clouds.
It's great to assume not adding good jobs or successful companies keeps costs down. But SD is overpriced as it is. When many houses go for millions of dollars and most houses are $500K and up while most people still make $50K and under, the COL just doesn't add up. So if companies keep moving out because it's to expensive to do business in SD and no other companies really move here and the startups cash out and leave town as soon as they can, it creates a city where a few people are doing well, most people struggle to survive. Eventually crime goes up because it's just the way things happen.

But a lot of people assume living in gated communities protects them from the rest of the world. If SD were some small beach community where only the wealthy go to hang out at the beach, nobody would care But SD is a big city with a lot of poor people. Eventually people get pissed off. So yeah it's great to have the mindset that you never want big jobs or companies coming to town. But thinking you live in a small town either means you'll eventually move or something will happen and you'll be "Shocked."

Well, no one is "entitled" to live here. That is why people move to where it is cheaper all the time. Those that think they are entitled and make things "happen" end up on the Police blotter. Not really a good career move.

[metoque]

Originally Posted by Pedro2000

So if companies keep moving out because it's to expensive to do business in SD and no other companies really move here and the startups cash out and leave town as soon as they can, it creates a city where a few people are doing well, most people struggle to survive. Eventually crime goes up because it's just the way things happen.

So your alternative is to get more big companies to set up shop here? That would send home prices through the roof, so I'm not sure how that helps affordability.

[Oboe700]

Originally Posted by moved

What do you all expensive?

Over 25% of your monthly take home income.

San Diego averages close to 30%.


Some examples .... a 2bdr+less than 2000sqft in UTC should NOT cost over $1300. Yet they run for $2000 and way over.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Oboe700

Over 25% of your monthly take home income.

San Diego averages close to 30%.


Some examples .... a 2bdr+less than 2000sqft in UTC should NOT cost over $1300. Yet they run for $2000 and way over.

Why do you feel you are entitled to a 1300 dollar place here? I just want to hear why someone feels that way.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by metoque

So your alternative is to get more big companies to set up shop here? That would send home prices through the roof, so I'm not sure how that helps affordability.

Yep, good paying jobs mean people with money that can afford to live here. As it should be. No one is entitled to live here. Heck, I have been thinking of moving some place more affordable myself once my kids are out of school.

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by Oboe700

Over 25% of your monthly take home income.

San Diego averages close to 30%.


Some examples .... a 2bdr+less than 2000sqft in UTC should NOT cost over $1300. Yet they run for $2000 and way over.

What does "should not" mean? Does this apply to other desirable areas like NYC, SF, Hawaii too - should these provide you with 1300/month units too?

[sdurbanite]

Originally Posted by metoque

Because jobs don't pay well in SD, housing is actually cheaper than it could be...look at the Bay Area or Seattle where the weather and quality of life isn't as good IMO, and housing is the same or more expensive. SD is a paradise, and that's what you're paying for. The question is this...are you willing to stretch yourself more financially than the next guy just to stay here and enjoy the lifestyle? Lots of people here are willing to live on the brink of financial ruin just to live here...can you compete with that?

What you just described is the infamous San Diego sunshine tax. Among the costliest cities around the country, SD salaries are near the bottom. That's not to saying salaries here are lower than most everywhere else, but compared to Boston, DC, SF, Seattle and a few others, we get paid lower on average. What screws things up for us is how high our home prices are.

Perfect example of the sunshine tax is Padre Tony Gwynn. He could have made way more money playing for a lot of other MLB teams, but decided he was happy playing for the Padres and and didn't need more money.

Below are the median household incomes from various metros that often get compared to San Diego. You can see we aren't the highest and far from the lowest.

San Francisco - $74,922
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele.../cb13-r85.html

Seattle - $65,677
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele.../cb13-r86.html

San Diego - $60,330
San Diego Metro Area's Household Income at $60,330 in 2012, American Community Survey Shows - American Community Survey (ACS) - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

Los Angeles - $57,271
Los Angeles Metro Area's Household Income at $57,271 in 2012, American Community Survey Shows - American Community Survey (ACS) - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

Atlanta - $54,628
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele.../cb13-r65.html

Phoenix - $51,359
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele.../cb13-r79.html

[sdurbanite]

If salaries in SD are as low as so many seem to claim, why is the market able to support such high home prices?

Aunt Millie and Uncle Fred from Iowa can't afford a home here, we don't have the international investors you see in Miami or LA and college roommates aren't buying them. Home loans are stricter than they were during the last bubble. The illegal immigrants aren't qualified and wealthy retirees are flocking to other places. So who's left?

[Oboe700]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Why do you feel you are entitled to a 1300 dollar place here? I just want to hear why someone feels that way.

"Entitled" ... no one in this thread uttered those words.

25% of income has usually been used as a ball park percentage for housing.
San Diego average income is $45K. 30% of that is around $900/month.
That should be average. But it doesn't say what size, so I guess we can also assume average size apartment/house for this discussion.
A studio apartment at one extreme and a 4-5 bdr house at another.
So lets assume a 2bdr apt as average.
So $900 for average area, $700-$800 for a lower cost area and $1000 - (say) $1300 for a higher end neighbourhood.
Throw on another $100-$200 for sunshine tax (which is mysteriously absent in Florida) ...so max $1500.
Let's leave the extremes out of it (i.e. beach front apartments in La Jolla or a run down apt somewhere else).

Is that analysis fair?


Edit:
My numbers above are wrong. $45K was from data from the year 2000. $60,000 quoted by sdurbanite are more recent numbers.
Using $60K, the median cost is $1250. Add some more for better area, subtract some for less desirable.

Interestingly the website below quotes a survey from zillow that ranks San Diego as the 4 worst city for housing costs. They report that San Diegans have to pay 35.5% of their income for a median priced home and 42.2&% for median rent. Much higher than the 25% I used above.

http://timesofsandiego.com/business/...using-markets/



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