Why do San Diegans drive so dangerously? (San Diego, Carlsbad: DMV, safety)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by jkoz

Because the "vast majority" break the law, we're all supposed to?

Stop by one of the major trauma units on a Friday or Saturday night and see the brain parenchyma of a "fast driver" or their victim herniating out of their split open skull. (sorry, but I am a medical person and know this reality). That's the "real" consequence of reckless drivers and their victims. I personally have no desire to go there, nor do I want part in sending someone else there.

You're not going to control someone else's behavior who chooses to drive safely and desires to get where they are going in one piece by bullying, tailgating, intimidating, etc. I personally see much more of that on the road than the other way around.

I'm not talking about drivers in the far left lanes--I am talking about an empty I-805 at 12:30 a.m. when I am in the far right lane traveling 65 mph, there are 3-4 empty lanes to the left of me, and someone is tailgating me--that's assinine. I think an earlier poster mentioned that scenario, and I would say that is almost a nightly occurrence for me.

Note: A '94 Geo Tracker is not a turbo jet car, folks! 65 mph is about as safe as she goes!

Not saying others should go faster than 65mph b/c many do, just stating that most do so that whole speed limit argument is kind of pointless.

"Fast" and "fast and reckless" are two different things.

And I was just talking about the far left lane, what you're describing about empty freeways and someone doing that BS is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for. I don't understand when people do crap like that or when people drive 65mph in the fast lane on an empty freeway at 1230am either, which I've seen many times.

[RD5050]

I totally agree. 65 is the law. And anyone going faster than 65 is breaking the law. Plain and Simple.

It doesn't matter what lane they are in ... or the time of day they are driving. They are breaking the law.

It's those people who drive faster than 65 that make the highways unsafe for the rest of us who are trying to obey the law.

Just because someone owns a sports car which can easily handle speeds over 65 doesn't make it ok for them to speed. If they want to drive it fast, they should do it at a racetrack, not on a public highway.

Also, if someone is traveling at 65, why would you need to pass them? Aren't they going fast enough already? So there really is no reason to exceed 65.

[jkoz]

Originally Posted by sav858

Not saying others should go faster than 65mph b/c many do, just stating that most do so that whole speed limit argument is kind of pointless.

"Fast" and "fast and reckless" are two different things.

And I was just talking about the far left lane, what you're describing about empty freeways and someone doing that BS is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for. I don't understand when people do crap like that or when people drive 65mph in the fast lane on an empty freeway at 1230am either, which I've seen many times.

I think the only time I've driven in the far left lane on a S.D. freeway is getting onto westbound 94 from downtown Lemon Grove where you merge into the far left lane--very poorly designed.

Fast and fast and reckless are two different things, but there is a fine line. You don't have the control of your vehicle at 80 that you do at 65 if that rolltop desk falls off of an overloaded pickup in front of you, or if a tire blows out in front of you, as happened to me a few weeks back. At 80-85 mph, it would have been all over. In a perfect world, everyone would properly use tie-downs and check their tires daily and/or would all have new tires, but they don't. Stuff happens--fast--you gotta be ready.

[bunky3301]

I'm not going to say that I haven't had my times on the 805 or the 5 where I got passed up like I was standing still. But in all the places I've lived San Diego is nothing compared to Washington DC drivers or even Norfolk/ Va. Beach area...they drive horrible. But its all relavent I guess...I still say San Diego drivers aren't so bad though.

[f_m]

I would say LA is worse in drivers, but mainly the drivers are not so experienced driving because they've been living in multi-lane areas and can get away with bad habits that would never work in 2 lane roads.

Concerning slow moving traffic in the "fast lane:"

V.C. Section 21654 - Slow-Moving Vehicles

Basically, from what I understand, the flow of traffic is supposed to be allowed to move such that the leftmost lanes are the lanes with faster vehicles, and the right lanes for slower vehicles, regardless of the speed limit "normal speed of traffic." That is why there are "Slower traffic keep right" signs and that it is more dangerous to have slow vehicles mix with faster vehicles (and it increases the vehicle density, also more dangerous).

[RD5050]

Originally Posted by f_m

I would say LA is worse in drivers, but mainly the drivers are not so experienced driving because they've been living in multi-lane areas and can get away with bad habits that would never work in 2 lane roads.

Concerning slow moving traffic in the "fast lane:"

V.C. Section 21654 - Slow-Moving Vehicles

Basically, from what I understand, the flow of traffic is supposed to be allowed to move such that the leftmost lanes are the lanes with faster vehicles, and the right lanes for slower vehicles, regardless of the speed limit "normal speed of traffic." That is why there are "Slower traffic keep right" signs and that it is more dangerous to have slow vehicles mix with faster vehicles (and it increases the vehicle density, also more dangerous).

Here is the definition of Prima Facie Speed Limits in California:

V.C. Section 22352 - Prima Facie Speed Limits

It only talks about speeds of 15mph and 25mph. It does not apply to highway speeds.

The maximum legal highway speed is 65mph in California:

V.C. Section 22349 - Maximum Speed Limit

The only exception is if the CA Highway Patrol felt 70mph is a safe speed:

V.C. Section 22356 - Increase of Freeway Speed Limit to 70 Miles Per Hour

in which case, appropriate 70mph signs would be posted.

So you can't simply say that whatever speed the "flow of traffic" is going is considered legal. If everyone is traveling at 75mph in the left lane, then everyone is breaking the law.

[f_m]

Originally Posted by RD5050

Here is the definition of Prima Facie Speed Limits in California:

V.C. Section 22352 - Prima Facie Speed Limits

It only talks about speeds of 15mph and 25mph. It does not apply to highway speeds.

The maximum legal highway speed is 65mph in California:

V.C. Section 22349 - Maximum Speed Limit

The only exception is if the CA Highway Patrol felt 70mph is a safe speed:

V.C. Section 22356 - Increase of Freeway Speed Limit to 70 Miles Per Hour

in which case, appropriate 70mph signs would be posted.

So you can't simply say that whatever speed the "flow of traffic" is going is considered legal. If everyone is traveling at 75mph in the left lane, then everyone is breaking the law.

That's why it says "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits," so it doesn't matter what prima facie speed limits are.

There are signs that say "Slower Traffic Keep Right" which are law, since the signs are black and white (signs in black and white are law), it doesn't say any particular speed, only slower relative to existing traffic.

It's not a question of breaking the law as far as I'm concerned (I didn't say any of the people are/were driving above the speed limit), but the safety of people on the road. Proper driving technique, for safety, is to pass on the left and then move over to the right, regardless of speed. Only stay on the left when passing.

V.C. Section 21650 - Right Side of Roadway

"Driving slower than other cars or stopping all of a sudden can be just as bad as speeding. It tends to make cars bunch up behind you and it could cause a rear-end crash. If many cars are passing you, move into the right lane and let them pass."

California Driver Handbook - Important Driving Tips - Accident Avoidance

[RD5050]

Originally Posted by f_m

That's why it says "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits," so it doesn't matter what prima facie speed limits are.

My mistake ... I thought you were implying that it would be considered legal to drive at whatever speed the present "flow of traffic" was moving, even if that speed was more than 65mph.

I now see that you were just stating that slower moving vehicles needed to be in the right lane.

[solt530]

I have to agree that San Diego drivers are horrible. It boils down to everyone here in San Diego being so self centered and only caring about themselves when they are on the road. It's as if they don't even realize other people are driving and trying to get places as well, and only what they have to do is important.

I have never been involved in any car accident until I moved to San Diego. I've lived here 2 1/2 years, and have been hit 3 times already. Once was in downtown when a lady decided to turn left at a light, and then half way through her turn, decided she wanted to make a U-turn instead cause she saw a parking spot she wants, so she ended up going the wrong way and crashed into the side of my car. Then about a year later, I was coming home from work, there was a lot of traffic on the 163 and I was at a complete stop waiting and some idiot rear ended me at a high speed cause he was swerving in and out of traffic to get where he was going faster. Turns out that moron was drunk. Then 4 days after that, while in a rental car, I was stopped at a red light on Mira Mesa Blvd and some guy comes flying down Mira Mesa and rear ends me again. He was speeding down Mira Mesa not paying attention to the traffic in front of him.

Now I'm not saying people from other parts of the country are good drivers or anything like that, but I feel the people in San Diego are by far the most self centered, egotistical, non considerate drivers in the country. If any of those 3 idiots had realized there are other people on the road and paid attention, I would not have had to be hit three times. Luckily I was not injured badly in any of the three accidents, but it could have been a lot worse. I was alone in the car, but if someone had been sitting in the back seat or something, they could have been hurt badly.

In all three incidents, it was completely sunny out, and the road was dry, so it has nothing to do with the rain. Although when it does rain here, I fear driving cause it seems that as soon as a drop of water falls from the sky, everyone in San Diego decides to swerve into the nearest car, wall, divider, or building they can see.

All I know is I try to always stay to the right now and drive the speed limit. When I come to a complete stop, I leave a lot of room between myself and the car in front of me and immediately watch the people behind me to make sure they are stopping in time. I definitely feel San Diego drivers are amongst the worst in the country and everyone should be aware of the other idiots driving on the roads with them at all times.

[tsuyoi_racing]

Originally Posted by jkoz

What exactly is the "flow of traffic"? I do hear this phrase here a lot and had not heard it anywhere else (including Nor. Cal.). The "flow of traffic" should all be traveling at a maximum of 65 MPH, regardless of lane, no?

I was driving last night from Carlsbad to San Clemente. Stayed on the right lane most of the time going 70+mph. Migrated to the far left and did 110mph because that was the flow of traffic speed. Nobody does 65mph anymore unless you're a grandma. All I know is, if you're coming from another state, you gotta learn how to drive fast and aggressive.